Actors and Actresses

A conductor of an orchestra is not called a “conductress” , a teacher a “teacher’s”, a chef a “chafes” a dentist a “dentess(?).or a doctor a “doctress” so why should we need a feminised form of job titles except as a throwback to the 19th and early 20th centuries when a female professional was akin to a fish on a bicycle.

My iPad rightly rejected “teachress ” and “chefess “ without my noticing -sorry

Weren’t teachers masters and mistresses back in the olden days when we were at school?

The diminutive “-ess” was seen to be infantilising women, and unnecessary.

Do you know Mawbroon you really made me think there, and you are right.
I was a bit sniffy about actors all being called actors, but you have changed my mind. Thank you.

There’ll come a day when we are all known as men. That should sort it nicely, no chance of infantilising women in any area.

I agree with Juliette there will be no such thing as a woman, girl, lady,miss, mrs etc. we will also just be "person" or "it".

I remember the first wedding we went to conducted by a female vicar. This was pre Vicar of Dibley days and DS whispered to me, 'Is she a vicette or a vicesse or something?'

It made me giggle because I hadn't considered a child might be puzzled as to what to call her.

Was the “ess” really seen to be infantilising women or is that just a take on the reason? I thought it denoted which gender say a writer (authoress/author) was. Is that seen to be a bad thing now? I agree with Juliette and gillybob. In future there will be no need for male/female. All will be a blob. (Who was it who suggested turkey basters as a way of procreation? I am relieved I will not be around in the future, “life Jim, but not as we know it”).

Juliette this reminded me of when parents were invited to look round the High School before the 'gels' started - this was in the 1950s.
DM mentioned something about 'teachers' and was immediately put in her place by the Headmistress who said 'We don't have teachers at this school Mrs M, they are all mistresses.
DM was duly chastened

We did acquire a Master later on as well. Poor man

I don't know. Teachers used to be masters or mistresses, there were chefs and cooks etc. It's sort of reverse feminism to pretend that gender differences don't exist. They do exist and they are of interest.

Aha - thanks Mawbroon - but I'm pretty sure a bus conductor was a conductress? But I agree with you on the orchestra front - life and the spoken / written word aren't complex at all.

Off to a cafe for lunch now, so I'll ask the person who serves us if they are a server or a waiting on person - I think I can see server might be easier than waiting on person.

"Person goes into a pub and says to the bar person ....."

Not a good way to start a joke -oh no, I feel a minefield coming on!!

We have Headmasters and Headmistresses do we not ?

I don’t mind in the least that professions should be gender neutral but it is nice to know if you’re dealing with a man or a woman. I’d hate for us all to become It’s. We had someone come to inspect a large tree in our garden which has a preservation order on it. (We would like a couple of metres taken off a branch which overhangs too much.) The person who came to inspect it has proved a problem. Neither of us could tell if we were speaking to a young man or a woman. Our application was of course refused and I’ve appealed but it took a bit of thought to fill in the forms without using him or her, he or she or knowing their name when quoting his/her reasons for declining our request.

When the written report of the visit eventually came through it was signed but that was no help at all. S/he is named Alex!

Annie, aren't they all Headteachers these days?

Yes, "Headteacher" is the normal term, certainly in the State sector.

"Conductress" (aka "Clippie") was certainly normal usage on the buses in my youth. As we no longer seem to have conductors of either gender, that one's a bit academic.

As for actors/actresses: I think there's a valid distinction here, as the jobs are not interchangeable. I know that exceptions are sometimes made, e.g. in some Shakespearean productions - and in panto! -but in general, if you are casting Hercule Poirot or James Bond, you'll want an actor, not an actress.

Auntyflo, I put it as a question

I think they should all be actors if you see a unknown doctor or dentist you don’t know if they are male or female till you walk in the room doctor is a unisex title as is pilot you don’t have pilotesses or even shop assistant you have a violinist a cellist a drummer none denote their gender a cyclist a runner a hurdler in fact the more you think about it the fewer occupations you can think of with a gender based name a vet, a vicar, a bus driver, gardener, all I can think of is midwife but that’s confusing because you can get male midwives ?

I agree, Bluebelle. Why does it matter which sex your doctor, lawyer, waiter, musician, gardener, etc is? People are people. I used to hate being described as a 'woman doctor'. I was never a gynaecologist!

And what about 'male nurse'? It's usually easy enough to tell which sex a nurse is.

It's just that if I'm reading about an actor I haven't come across before I like to have a picture of them in my mind. It's difficult to do if you don't know what sex they are and some of their names are no help at all.

In Italy you have Dottore and Dottoressa and, my favourite, Professor and Professoressa and no one seems to mind.

Great post Bluebelle

I would object to being called an Actress instead of an Actor. Or other such out dated term.
I full agree with Maw, Suzied others on this.
Conductor, Doctor, Waiter.

Anniebach It should be just a "Headteacher" no gender reference needed..
(When did any of us last see a bus conductor on any bus .)

I don't really see why adding the ess should be belittling women? Perhaps It's because I went to an all girls school and there was never any suggestion that we were in anyway inferior. Perhaps we should scrap Mrs, Miss and Ms and just all be Mr?