Newsnight tonight [Monday]

It's all a buggers muddle, isn't it tegan ?

Too much of this "one size fits all" thinking. There is a sort of same but different here, fair amount of housing going up, but bugger all in the way of increased job opportunities!

...and Esther wants a 'Minister for old people'. What if they give Gove the job ....

I didn't watch it but agree about not wanting to live surrounded by the elderly and infirm, Tegan. I hope I'm a long way off that.

Mum lived in a brand new assisted care complex for two years before she had to go into full time nursing care. There was a library - nobody used it, a cinema room - hardly ever used, a coffee shop - just one or two people in it every day and a garden that nobody sat in because it was north facing and didn't get any sun!

The only well used facilities were the dining room and the hairdresser.

I used to think....Shoot me now!

...and these retirement villages would have gyms and suchlike; no mention of an onsite bookies ....

There are some nice little bungalows in the next village but they have a communal garden so no one can have a dog . Some of us have said we'd live there if we has a little garden each.

Did they prefer to keep themselves to themselves merlotgran?

I'm with you Tegan - it's a mess. I would happily downsize but don't want to be with a bunch of oldies - therein lies madness for me. I want to be where the life is, young people, families, old people, middle aged people - an "old timers' village" would be awful so far as I'm concerned. OH loves his "castle"- actually a 4 bed detached house in a village - and has his eyes on a supersonic apartment once his OH is deceased! Needless to say this OH has other plans......

Seriously though, we have an OK place but couldn't afford what is on offer for the elderly in this area which is a shame as our place is perfect for a young family - and I feel guilty to be using the space up? Does that make me a socialist? Still not sure who to vote for

No, soontobe. They were old and needed encouragement and assistance to go to the library/cinema/coffee shop/laundry etc., but they were expected to be 'independant'

This bloody silly wonderful idea was dreamed up to replace a much simpler complex where small bedsit style rooms were built around a courtyard so residents could leave their doors open and wander down much shorter corridors. They could natter with their neighbours without having to negotiate a long walk to the lift and the dining room doubled up as a function room.

I used to liken it to demolishing back to back housing in favour of high rise flats.

Sounds like the terraced houses that people used to live in before a lot of them got pulled down .

I watched it, liked the writer who didn't want to live in a community with just old people. I so agree. Why is it assumed that we want to live like the Americans? If I downsize I want something close to shops/cafes/theatres/cinemas where people of all ages go.

I'm thinking ' Miss Haversham' got it right! I intend to live in my own home no matter how crumbly we both get! x

Hey J52 may I introduce you to my OH? You would have a lot in common

Wouldn't it be sensible – too much to hope – if older people were consulted about what they would like and what they would find most convenient before anyone planned these horrible old people's ghettoes?

A recently opened 'Luxury Retirement Village' near here has one bedroom apartments starting at £365,000..... Not on a bus route, 4 miles from nearest town and surgery etc.

Personally I think this trend isn't just isolating older people into enclaves but also encouraging people to think that the elderly shouldn't be supported to stay in their communities.

It get that feeling too Loopy. The blatant anti-the-elderly articles I've read in the media wouldn't be allowed if they were referring to a race or a religion, but old folk are fair game. If they don't work it's because we have amazing pensions, which is somehow A Bad Thing. If we do work (because we don't have these pensions) then we are taking Taking Their Jobs. And of course it is us clogging up the NHS as part of an Ageing Generation. Nothing to do with this current Mr and Mrs Blobby generation with their lardy arses and obesity related problems.

I'm only surprised we gave been forced to wear armbands depicting our age and herded into retirement ghettos - yet.

wanders off muttering to self and ranting

we have been we haven't been..

Of course the 'enclaves' are only affordable for the relatively affluent so the rest of us will stay put.

Ageism is being fostered now by these property exploiters developers, making their fortunes from the 'worried well elderly'.

I know someone who moved into one on the south coast with her DH, thinking it was a good idea. When her DH's health deteriorated the so-called 'holistic care' and the nursing home there couldn't cope with his dependency levels so he had to go into a different nursing home, 14 miles away - she doesn't drive.
She's now very isolated, says no one uses the communal areas and she's very lonely, spending all day everyday with her DH who cannot communicate with her and doesn't recognise her. Very sad.

The words of the foul-mouthed granny from the Catherine Tate show comes to mind.

How dare they try to herd us.

The parents of my neighbour moved from a 4 bed house , not huge or unmanageable, to an apartment for the over 55's about 12 years ago. The second one of the couple died about 15 months ago. The apartment has been for sale all that time along with many others in the complex. They are very hard to sell. The price has been reduced several times but still no takers and the management charges still have to be paid, plus insurance and utility bills. It has certainly put me off even thinking about downsizing. I will continue to be selfish in my home, for that is what is is, my home.

Ignore all the nonsense about living in oversized houses - When HM and all her cronies plus those others with loads of money look at their vastly oversized houses and decide to downsize perhaps then it is time to reconsider but even then it is not for us to aid governments who constantly get the housing wrong.

If I might generalize, I think as a nation we are not really into communal living.

A friend from the Middle East commented that in her private block of flats in London there are many older widows, who come and go during the day to the shops, hairdressers, etc., and some have family/friends who visit - what surprises her is that these residents rarely socialize with each other and certainly don't pop in and out of neighbours flats as they would in her home country.

I think that's just how we are, and how I'll be when am much older.

I'm sociable but a very private person and don't want to share a garden or a community room on a daily basis. A nod or a chat with neighbours is one thing but the idea of a retirement complex repels me, it really does.

Plus, as others have said, they can be a bugger to sell and the service charges are high.

annsixty I read somewhere about the enormous difficulties in selling on these properties and it isn't something that the developers make explicit.

Seems a bit like the timeshare debacles to me.

these apartments/flats/bungalows for the elderly seem to be a bit of a rip-off

the only downsizing that makes sense is if it releases money to help the offspring or make life easier for the downsizer. bungalows are expensive compared to semis and retired villages have huge annual fees (sometimes over £2k and lots of us are trying to live with very little cash coming in)

older people want a small garden to grow a few things in - not a communal garden
what they really really want - is a small house in a small market town where there is a shop, health centre, chemist and 'nice safe areas' to walk in while they are still active - things that are probably not so important to families who need good commuting/schools etc.

was talking to a neighbour recently who is in her 50s - she suggested if I found the garden a bit much to sell up, mopve nearer my family and buy a bungalow!
my reposte - I am 69 not 79 - not yet time for bungalow-land

Esther Rantzen knows next to nothing about how 'real oldies' live - she is on the rich side of pensioners' cohort