Benefits Britain episode 7 -I'm speechless!

Care in the community done properly costs a load! Many years ago when this was first being planned, along with the closure of various residential facilities we, as social workers, kept saying this; and trying to point out that some people are better off in residential care. The powers that be thought they would be making savings, and so they did - by providing second class care in the community.

There is a man with bipolar disorder who has wandered the streets of our home town ever since, relying on the kindness of various shopkeepers and the cathedral staff.

ethelbags Do you think a person with a mental illness or a learning disability would make a conscious choice to live in a filthy hovel and eat only pizza, or is it that some people are either temporarily or permanently unable to organise their lives without a great deal of support?

To my mind much of "care in the community" hasn't been as caring as it should have been. My husband originally worked as a nurse in large institutions for people with learning disabilities. The positive side was that the residents were reasonably well clothed, well fed, generally kept safe and had companionship. The downside was that those who would, with some help, have been able to live more independent and fulfilling lives became dependent on the staff because they didn't need to acquire new skills - everything they needed was catered for.

Care in the community shouldn't mean just plonking someone down in a flat somewhere, on their own, and popping in now and again to observe and record the ensuing chaos. I think the scheme where tenants can live rent-free in exchange for some basic support of a person with a mild/moderate learning disability is a good idea. Also, small units where one or two trained staff give help to residents to acquire new skills and to deal with everyday practicalities like shopping and budgeting.

I think unfortunately that the motivation behind closing these vast institutions was not altruistic but based on economic factors. Maintaining, heating and staffing those places cost a great deal of money and there was a further incentive to close them as the land on which they stood was often very valuable. There are many examples of the land and buildings on these sites being sold to developers for large sums of money, and the buildings either demolished or re-developed for luxury flats. The community provision that followed was sometimes excellent but more often cost-cutting left people with psychiatric illnesses alone and unable to manage their medication, their finances or basic practical tasks, which led to some of them ending up on the streets.

In the latter part of my husband's career he managed day and residential units. In this area of London they were, on the whole, of excellent quality. One residential unit that I recall with particular fondness had a wonderful homely atmosphere, home cooked food, regular activities - and dances which the residents particularly enjoyed. Unfortunately, this lovely place has now been closed by the council, presumably to save money, and the provision out-sourced.

Perhaps a better view of 'independent living' Yes I know it is cheaper in the long run for our son to live in the lovely environment he now does, but for him it was a BETTER move. It was however overseen by the organisation which has cared for him for a long time, and there is still someone on duty 24 hours, but his independence is so much greater and he is really happy with it. Sorry again going 'off piste' but there is some good out there. I too despair of those people who just will not get off their back-sides and do something to help themselves.

etheltbags there is a difference between people who choose to live in a messy house and those whose house is a tip because they are not capable of organising their lives. In the second case it is not choice and those who live like that, particularly those who have learning disabilities or mental illnesses are adversely affected by their living conditions.

Have you ever watched 'The Hoarder Next Door' with psychotherapist Stelios Kiosses? These programmes make it very clear that this kind of behaviour often arises from deep psychological trauma.

I feel very uncomfortable with the phrase 'They have the right to live like that if they want to, it has to be their choice'. It is too often used as an excuse not to help people who are desperately in need of help and whose domestic chaos is not a question of choice but a signal that they need help.

Gill57, in my job I see people living like your gentleman and they have the right to live like that if they want to, it has to be his choice. This is the way many people live and they have nothing to do with SS.
You just cant put that person in care because he smokes and eats takeaways.
I do market research and go into homes where there are several people all perfectly able to do housework but they just don't want to do it and no-one can make them change. I sometimes have to climb over rubbish in the hallway, old takeaway boxes etc and sit on chairs that I know are flea ridden and piled up with clutter but if that's how they live then so be it.

The problem with breast feeding was that he was having a lot of little feeds during the night. When DD stopped the night feeds his nappies were so much drier so he was obviously getting through a lot of milk and it would all be washing around his teeth all night. It was never a problem with GS1 because he was bottle fed from 6 months and didn't have an inexhaustible supply overnight.

Not everyone is capable of looking after their own finances and personal lives, and I have seen the results of SS pushing people into Care in the Community. Without getting into too much detail and possible identifying anyone, I had a call at work asking for help to clean the gentleman's flat. My staff had to leave; the place was disgusting, stinking of cigarette smoke, full ash trays, over flowing bins, filthy toilets and piles and piles of take away pizza boxes. This hapless soul was festering in his independence, assisted by his community care worker, and I really cannot see how this benefited him at all. This wasn't by choice, it had been foisted on him. So called independent living was for him lonely, malnourished and filthy.

We have a severely autistic member of our family. Social Services put a lot of pressure on his family to move him into a flat so that he could live independently and without any help from carers. As well as autistic he is learning disabled and while physically capable would be unable to manage his life to get up, get dressed, manage personal or domestic hygiene, or cook and eat properly. Let alone pay bills or manage personal and domestic security. Social Services suggested that he could make friends with others in the block! It suggested that SS were completely ignorant of what autism means.

Fortunately his parents threatened legal action and he remains living in the supportive community he has lived in for over 10 years. There he leads a happy and productive life helping on the land the community owns and whose produce is sold to support the charity that runs it. With help he looks after himself and helps with cooking and cleaning in the house he lives in with others like himself and with helpers.

The reason SS wanted to make this change, despite his condition being far too severe for independent living, was to save money and if they could get away with it they didn't give a toss for how destructive this would be for the mentally and learning disabled victim.

Well I had far too much and tried and give some to the cat- he refused, lol!

But yes, we digress.

Felice, well done your son! I am so lucky never to have been in that situation, but I think I'd much prefer to have a low paid, even 'menial' job, than none.

Mishap that goes with me akin to eating the placenta, yuck.

Not sure where this fits in with benefits, but hey ho!

Breast milk is very sweet - I have tried it - and made Horlicks with it! Yummy!

New one on me too Granjura !!

BF feeding causes cavities??? First I've ever heard of this. Link please?

My oldest son is Autistic, and has Schizophrenia, he lives in the home of a carer and works full time in a manual job. His carer recieves an allowance and he pays his rent and food himself.
We are all very proud of him, There are opportunities out there if people want to do it, and that is the crux surely wanting to do it.
He is in the UK, the system is very,very different here.

GillT57 I saw the programme you mentioned and felt much as you did. These are the unemployables, who will always be with us.

The reason these decisions to make recipients responsible for paying their own rent has got nothing to do with 'helping' them adjust to the world of work. It is all about saving money. It costs the government les to administer if Housing benefit is rolled into benefits payments with payment the responsibility of the recipient.

DD is in such a state because GS2 has a cavity in a tooth when he's only two! No more breast feeding at night and cleaning his teeth after every meal. And sweets between meals are very rare now.

I made the mistake of watching Junk food Kids or some such title last week. Small children were either obese or having to have several teeth extracted through poor diet. One father whose small son was having to have about five teeth extracted said 'he's in a bit of pain after the extractions but I'll give him some sweets to make him feel better!' He also said 'I give my kids sweets to make them happy, as long as they are happy what's a few missing teeth?' Also this little gem 'It's the government's fault and the sweet shop owners fault' Sorry to go off subject there!

I also did not watch rhe programme as it would have made my blood boil.

I have a brother in law by marriage who I think made a career choice with his wife and they had many children. I dread to think the amount of money that came into that house, paid for by us. They must be feeling the pinch now because they only have 2 who would qualify for child support. He would not recognise a day's work if it hit him in the face- he is bone idle.

The irritating thing is that he will probably receive the same amount of state pension as me when the time comes because his contributions were paid for over the years.

These programmes are made to irritate and enrage, but sometimes I find that I start feeling quite the opposite, and feel sympathy and some kind of pity ( horrid word) for the families concerned. I watched one such programme a couple of weeks ago where a chap in his late 30s lived with his Mother and his fiancee who was in her 60s, older than his Mother in fact. Not one of them worked, and frankly were all incapable of doing so and seemed to be totally bewildered by the world. He was discussing starting a family with his 60+ year old fiancee and said that the only reason they hadn't was because her coil had got lost , the fiancee had 7 children from various relationships in the past.They eventually lost their home as they hadn't been paying their rent and it angers me that this new drive to make people responsible for their own budgets is being imposed on people who really just can't cope. Their rent would previously have been paid direct to their landlord, but when the housing benefit was paid direct to the family, it got spent with no realisation of the outcome. This is why private landlords wont take on HB claimants. Even the helpful lady at CAB got exasperated by this family, they were like a load of bewildered 7 year olds playing house. I suppose years ago he would have had a job sweeping a floor somewhere, but his aspirations to be an actor, which was supposedly his reason for claiming JSA, were unlikely to be fulfilled.

hildajenni When DCs where small OH worked a shift system and I went cleaning at the Local Gym from 5am-7am one week and OH left for work at 7.30am the next week when he was on lates I worked 10pm-Midnight so we managed to get through those expensive years when the mortgage rate was high and I needed to work I have never had a problem with cleaning work if I needed to do it, my finances came before pride every time.

But there are jobs out there for those who look hard enough. When I retired from Nursing last summer, we were struggling to live on DH's earnings. (He is paid just above the national minimum wage in the Co-op). I found a cleaning job, with an agency who have the cleaning contract with Waitrose. Granted the hours are difficult if you do not have a car. I start at 04.00 and finish at 07.00 five days a week, but if I lived in the town where the store is situated I would walk! It pays almost £2.00 an hour more than DH gets at the Co-op. My nice has borderline leading disabilities but manages a job in Next so well that she is going to be mentoring a new starter next month. I didn't watch Benefits Street as I knew it would make me cross!!!

So true petra I have been told this also by DDs friend who works at our local Benefits Office and it is so so wrong as is the camera's showing the disgusting way some of these people live,would you invite camera's into your home as they do,with dirty clothes/food everywhere/dirty nappies/beds with no sheets on ? I think not,they certainly have no pride in themselves or their homes so are totally unemployable in most cases and I know who you would rather be Phoenix and it would not be one of those claimaints thats for sure.

Phoenix. I can tell you why you were 'targeted' I was told this by a close friend who was head honcho at our benifits office.
Many years ago when I was signing on I came home (from signing on) and happened to be seeing my friend that evening. I was furious, like you, Phoenix, I had to show all proof of job hunting and was sent to numerous interviews.
She told me it was the way I looked. I was smart, hair done, full makeup job.
She told me there were only a certain number of people they could target to keep the numbers up and I was an easy target because of the way I looked.

Some good points ethel - there are no jobs for those who are not intellectually bright or have some sort of personality disorder. Benefits are all there is. You will soon need A levels to clean toilets!

I keep grinding on about how we should appreciate those who do "lowly" jobs and value their contribution. Then maybe people would not simply say that there is no point in working because they can get more in benefits - they do not see work as rewarding in itself and contributing to their self-worth.

There are benefit scroungers without a doubt, but whether they are all driven by greed and idleness or whether some are just "inadequate" and unable to function in the modern world is a question that does not seem to be under study, or the ways in which they might be helped.