I am incandescant with rage!

A programme tonight that might help to bring some balance to discussions.

www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/10946886/Can-Nick-Hewer-and-Margaret-Mountford-change-views-on-immigration.html

Hoping to watch that programme.
But what worries me more about the Channel 5 programme is that it could incite violence against the Romanian refugees. They don't seem to be intrinsically bad people, it's the system that's at fault and they could well be the victims.

Are they refugees?

They are what they call "economic refugees". Not the same thing at all.

I thought they were economic migrants.

On a very different note, but again about refugees, isn't it The Glasgow Girls tonight? A different side to this perhaps.

It's not refugees per se that are the issue it's all people who just want to take, take from the system.

Yes. You are right merlot. Durrr!

I suppose you could say they are seeking refuge from poverty?

Do you think the 'clan masters' will be on their backs forever?

I was amazed how much they earned going round in a van nicking collecting scrap metal even after they'd paid the clan master.

The truth probably lies somewhere between the Channel 5 programme and the BBC1 programme when linked to. The first prog seeking out worst cases, and the second perhaps whitewashing the situation a bit.

Those two in the picture on the Telegraph link have got their exclusive retreats to hurry back to.

And then of course there are all those reports about Romanian gangs of pickpockets and other organised crime rackets - probably grossly exaggerated, but there must be a grain or two of truth there.

Why must there be, Ana?
Or is it chaff?

One of the men on last night's programme stated quite cheerfully that if he couldn't earn 40K on benefits he'd steal the money and quite happy to pick pockets.

Bit more than a grain, I'd say.

We have open borders because we are in the EU, only way to change this is to leave the EU. DC will not be able to change this, although he may get some token powers back. With regard to benefits how can it be right that you can claim family allowance for children who don't live with their parent in the UK. There are Romanians sleeping rough near Park Lane in London its a disgrace.

I lived in Bulgaria for 5 years. I went there 2 years before they went into the EU. So I do have quite a lot of experience of living with and employing Roma.
I also have a lot of experience of Romania as I lived about one hour from the border and we travelled there a lot.
I have employed the best and the worst of these people. You will never understand them.
You can't imagine the poverty that some of them live in. Also, the attitude of their own countrymen towards them is appalling. I have seen this many times.
They don't have a hope in hell of getting out of this. Unless you are lucky and someone, as a friend of mine did, gives you a chance.
You have no idea how rural these two countries are. So even if you did get a chance of a job, you have no way of getting there.
Please don't think that I am defending what some of these people are doing.
But, hand on heart, if I lived as some are and I heard that there was a country that would give me and my children a home, food, education, medicine: would I do any different.
Someone mentioned the pick pocketing. Every word is true. It only happened to me twice, before I wished up.

The programme when mentions might be interesting, but will probably be the usual left-wing biased BBC production - from what I've read there aren't any Roma included in either episode.

My gripe is that DH suffered severe stroke last December but do we qualify for any financial assistance no we do not. Have jumped though hoops and divulged all financial details but we still don`t qualify for anything. He does get DLA and it has been upped to higher rate for care component but that`s all and I`m the one left picking up the pieces caring full time and at the moment feeling hard done by

I understand what you're saying about the poverty and lack of prospects in Romania, petra but why do we have to shoulder their problems?

I voted to stay in the common market as it was in the l970s not to have our borders opened to every lame duck in Europe at the expense of British taxpayers.

Please don't think I'm a bleeding heart, merlotgran. I'm not. If you saw my response on EU in or out, it was out out out.
What I am saying is: I have a lot of understanding of why they come here.
I would have to be a saint to defend them after being pick pocketed twice and have everything in my garden stolen by them.

I didn't watch the Nick and whoever programme all the way through - it came across more as an advertisement for more immigration. How people can state that it isn't the fault of immigrants that the infrastructure is groaning and crumbling is beyond me - do they seriously not understand about the numbers of people now wanting to use it?

That was the first half, Holly. The other half is being broadcast tonight.

I don't think it's a question of either feeling sorry for them [or not] the Roma, I mean, more a question of why they should be here?Well, we know that, it's the Eu and we can't stop it happening.What we can and should stop, is is the child allowance going back to country of origin [and that should be every country by the way] it should only be granted to children living here.It's all madness. As phoenix says, she couldn't get much help when she needed it.

I watched the programme too, HollyDaze. Even the Guardian was scathing about it today...

I might give tonight's episode a viewing then whenim64 - I just lose patience when they broadcast stuff that just isn't logical. I think the powers-that-be know that the natives (to use the term as it was used in the programme) are getting restless and it just came across as trying to pour oil on troubled waters.

It came across as patronising and dull to me!

It did Ana - like being spoken to as though we're too thick to understand the realities of it all - a bit rich considering we all have to live with the consequences; actually, not all - I doubt many programme makers and politicians have to wait for services as we do.

Given that Michael Gove has had to take a £36,000 pay cut due to his new job says it all really: those making decisions about our lives have no idea about how are lives operate.