Benefits Street

They need to in the US of A Nonu, there isn't an NHS, and public services are largely funded by local business and philanthropy. We're headed the same way, sadly.

Andrew Carnegie was told many , many years about philanthropy , otherwise he would not be remembered .
He took it on board as they , a lot of the wealthy do , perhaps more so in the U S of A .

Yes Bill Gates is someone who has not only amassed huge amounts of money by his hard work and enterprise, but also gives huge amounts back to charity. He and his wife have established a foundation with the aim of eradicating malaria from the world, if I'm not much mistaken. Better not to tar everyone with the same brush, but it would be good if those with money that they could never spend in a lifetime could follow his example.

I'm really shocked at the treatment Phoenix has had Can Citizens Advice Bureau not help you Phoenix?

It's the influence they have that is the problem. No point criticising, or envying, their wealth.

Previous but one post should have said Lidl not like

That "Lidl bloke" is Dieter Schwarz, founder of the Schwarz Foundation.

Karl Albrecht, founder of Aldi, is eighteenth richest.

Like bloke is number 29.

You can't stop people having good business brains, and a passion for hard work.

Bill Gates has.

And they are all at Davos, Eloethan.
I have just been looking on the Guardian website. There are figures for the latest fraud and underpayments of benefits on 16th January.
www.theguardian.com/society showing the difference between fraud and error.
Eloethan, this is how they want it, divide and rule. Cameron's dad amassed his millions by doing offshore tax dodging and running a company to tell others to do the same.
Going out to buy my Guardian now.
By the way, I heard on the local bbc news programme this morning that one million people have been taken off benefits and told they are fit for work. Of those who appeal, 40% will have their appeals upheld. In the meantime they will be living on less than they should be. They will be going to loan sharks and payday lenders to get money to buy food.
Most of the benefit fraud and error is because of housing benefit.
They could end up on the streets, or families in bed and breakfasts.

I've just caught up with this thread. Of course there is a "them and us" situation. 85 people in the world - just 85 - own as much wealth as half the world's population. articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2014-01-21/news/46375718_1_oxfam-wealth-less-tax

For heaven's sake, why are those of us who are not one of the 85 maintaining the status quo for those that are, by fighting amongst ourselves, instead of demanding that they be subject to the same laws, especially tax laws, as everyone else? Do people really think that a multi-billionaire has amassed this sort of money through honesty and hard work?

A thought which has come to me recently, I suspect that the various benefits authorities attack the more innocent because they are the easy option. If this isn't the case then how come those who stick to the rules can be sent many threatening letters whereas those who have never worked from the moment they left school are allowed to claim, claim, claim without it even being questioned?

It always comes back to the same stumbling block - for benefits to be channelled to those who really need them, bureaucracy needs to know more about their financial and medical health. Is that a good thing for the economy, or a bad thing for personal privacy? Can the two ever be reconciled?

I was interested in your last sentence Galen. What kind of people are involved in this kind of fraud if it involves accountancy?

That I do not understand, Galen. But then I do not know anyone who has been certified as being incapable of doing work, apart from my husband who had genuine medical reasons. We had someone from Ageuk come and talk to us, and he asked why we had not applied for the carers part of DLA as my husband could not cook himself a meal or even dress himself properly for years. The answer really is that we did not need the money because we had insurance through his company, and it's demeaning having to go through all those questions every year and relive how and why you are disabled.
Nowadays he might not even get the mobility component because the rules are so ludicrous. If you can walk to your car on the drive you do not get enough to get Motability. However, without a Motability car he would have been confined to the house.
I look at the False Economy website and Full Facts to check facts on benefits. We are Spartacus is a site showing things from disabled people's points of view, and giving statistics.

I see many people, mainly women whose reason for giving up work wax 'pregnancy' 20 or 30 years ago. They have been certified as being incapable of work for nebulous reasons ever since! The GPs are partly to blame for doling out Med3s on demand without review. Also, they do not realise that is it is incapacity for ALL work, not just their original job.

I would point out that I am not against genuine cases, in fact I think that 40% of appeals against DWP adverse decisions succeed on appeal.
Must point out that this is 40% of appeals that are disallowed.
I have no idea of the number of cases examined that are allowed!

Apparently according to government statistics if they eliminated benefit fraud and at the same time made sure people got everything they were entitled to, the benefits bill would go up! Even HMRC says that the tax gap is £30 billion per year, but it does not seem to be going after those people. That's 15 times more than the benefit cheats owe.
There was a case of a woman last year who kept claiming JSA even though she had two part time jobs. She was taken to court and told to pay back the money she owed. When it was worked out, she would have been entitled to twice as much through working tax credits, but she wasn't paid what she was owed!

I confess I think on the same lines as Galen on this one and in any event even if at less than 1% of the welfare budget the sums are still astronomic. Couple that with VAT fraud, tax evasion in all its forms, tax avoidance and official waste we then reach a stage where if irradicated we possibly would be in a position of wealth but somehow I doubt it as that money would find itself channelled somewhere other than into the pockets of the so called 'hard working families'.

But though you are correct Jen that fraud runs at only 1%, that actually represents a lot of money. Let me source that info from the Crown Prosectution Services stats.

The CPS says fraud in the benefit and tax credit system costs us £1.9bn a year. That’s about right, if a little out of date (it’s based on 2009/10 figures).

The latest estimate is a shade higher. The Department of Work and Pensions, which spent on welfare payments like the state pension and housing and unemployment benefit in 2011/12 says fraud cost them £1.2bn in that year.

HMRC, which pays out child and working tax credits and child benefit, identified £870m in fraudulent claims in the same year.

So if we combine the central estimates from both departments, the total amount of money lost to fraud across the benefits system was a little over £2bn in 2011/12.

However I'm not actually talking about fraudulent claims. I'm sure most of the 80% of inhabitants of Benefit Street are claiming legitimately. Some of them have never worked and have no intention of ever working. Unlike others we know who have worked, paid their NI, want to work and can't get a decent payment to tide them over when the need it most. The system stinks.

I suspect benefit fraud is much higher. They just haven't been caught ought.
I have seen blatant examples which have amounted to fraud over decades amounting to hundreds of thousands of pounds.
One is evasion of child maintenance by fraudulent accounting.

Sorry, Aka, but benefit fraud is less than 1% of the welfare budget.
Any MP or Lord who cheats the system is just as much a benefit cheat as the people on Benefits Street.
In fact I would not blame Phoenix if she went down that road, but I find it obscene that multi millionaires in Davos are telling us that we have to have more austerity. Their wine at last night's feast probably cost more than they have taken away from Phoenix for the week.

Phoenix that is so awful stopping the pittance they are giving you now. I don't understand any of this - how are people who have never paid any stamp able to get benefits? It is ridiculous that anyone who has worked for years no longer 'qualifies' for help.
Have you spoken to your MP? How are you supposed to survive now? - I know Mr P has fortunately got a job but you are an independent woman and having worked for years should be qualified to have some payments.
I feel this is so unjust.

For what? Daring to attempt to claim help?

Today I went to the Job Centre to sign on for the last time. No, I haven't got a job, it's just that I no longer qualify for contributions based JSA, as I don't have enough NI "stamps" for the qualifying period, due to being out of work.

The 4 signing desk ladies that have dealt with me were so lovely! They each took a moment away from what they were dealing with (so sorry, nice Italian couple with limited English that Sally was helping, she was back with them in no time) to wish me all the best, Richard (my special adviser who deals with old bats like me the over 50's came out from his back office especially to give me a hug!

They have given me so much support, but that is mainly because they know that I really am trying hard to get a job, and they all agreed that it is impossible to live on the £71.70 per week that I was getting.

These frontline people were excellent, unfortunately the faceless bodies who make the decisions at the DWP seem to be mindless clones, and don't get me started on my attempt to claim help with Council tax. Suffice to say, I filled in all the forms, sent them off, heard nothing until yesterday.

WHEN I GOT A SUMMONS TO APPEAR IN COURT!

First sentence should make sense.

I then digress to thinking about that mindless term all politicians love to use at the moment. The word is 'hardworking', it is a nice word to make people feel good but they never define what it means and who they are excluding from this definition of, presumably the 'deserving',

Does it include those over retirement age - a lot of us are no longer working, Does it include those on benefits because they have lost one job and do not yet have another? those working but earning so little they still receive benefits? Who falls into the unmentioned group of people who are not 'hardworking', so presumably undeserving.

Politicians keep talking about helping hardworking families, of them benefiting from this or that economic policy. If economic conditions generally improve, how will the government ensure that only the 'hardworking' benefit?

I am railing against the mindless meaningless language that politicians use to make them feel good, but which means nothing.

Just read that channel 4 are having to rehouse some people off this street because of death threats! www.gransnet.com/forums/television_and_radio/1203710-Benefits-Street?pg=5 Not sure if trying to link will work?