So alone

Increasing age and poor health can change people. Male or female. The dynamics all alter.

Best to try and talk to him, but other than that, try to find some interests, independent of him.

It’s easy to walk away when you’re younger - not so easy once you’re older.

Thank you for all your helpful suggestions. I am definitely going to look into some of the options.

I have just read further posts from you and think that you can ignore much of what I have suggested and just go for making the lists for yourself to find out what is important to you, and how you can achieve them, as it is apparent that from your post, he is very unlikely to be prepared to even consider looking at his own faults and behaviour, His idea of what is humorous, shows firstly his arrogance, but also his lack of intelligence as he seems only able to use the same , not funny expression and has not even found another different insulting sentence to say, So I would still go for finding out where you want to end up, making the most of the various options for classes etc, but then for a simple help, start saving up in an account of your own, and then buy, various useful things. So I dont know your age, but you could get a 3 year railcard, if you have tesco points you can even use those to get a railcard, have your buspass up to date. Think what you enjoy. I used to work for national trust, and whilst I wanted people to join to support the trust, it is very worthwhile not just for the properties but also especially in areas like the Lake dstrict, as you can use their car parks for free There are other things like HHA etc, so that you then have many things and places to go where you have paid for the pass and it lasts all year, so you dont need a lot of cash to go out for a day or whatever.

Do you drive? and have you a full license? If he is one of those men who insist on doing all or most of the driving, if you have a license, start driving to places on a regular basis. If you dont have a lcense consider getting one. It will all add to your freedom and confidence, so that when you do leave him or reorganise your life in some way, your skills are brushed up and when he scoffs and says oh you couldnt do this or that, you can just look at him , shrug your shoulders and say Well we will see. He will get quite a shock ,when he sees your ability to do what you need to do and do not need to go cap in him to do anything.

Good luck and we are all here and wish you much success with your future

A possible helpful plan may mean that you put on weight!! I will explain. Have you every made your own bread? I think it is a marvellous help. So I mostly make whole meal bread and put lots of poppy seeds on the top. It is a win win situation and you can be open about your reasons or not.

Make sure you have the necessary ingredients in the house, so that as and when you want to have a go , you have it all at your fingertips. So to make a good loaf, it needs good kneading and punching for the best result. You could simply start making bread and say a friend gave you some of her lovely bread and you realized how much tastier and good this was , but you dont save money as you eat more !

Craftily you can use it in different ways. When he starts to annoy you, or goes over the same old stuff you got annoyed about yesterday, you can look at your watch and say " oh must go and put the bread in , or whatever. When you are making the bread itself, all that pent up frustration and annoyance can be much relieved by giving a very good thumping and turning and punching it really hard with your fist. Whilst anyone looking in would see a very industrious and virtuous person going to great efforts to produce something tasty and economical. You can just smile and carry on, but in your head you are imagining this lump of dough as part of your annoying husbands anatomy. Thump away, no one else will understand what you are doing,

Then when it is in the oven, giving out delicious smells and making you look for that pot of home made jam to go with it. The result is worth eating, and though you will be tired from your efforts , the stress caused by the going round and round the petty hassles with your husband are made less. Then you also have a useful reason to leave the room or say have to get back to this conversation, which does not imply any you are critising or setting up further hassles.

I have been known in the past to cut a slice of bread and put jam on it , whilst mentally thinking that a member of a committee I was on, who was driving everyone else mad, was the bread and jam and I gobbled her up! So if he says you have made quite a lot of bread lately, you just smile and say you quite enjoy it and are having a phase , which you are
experimenting with various recipes, and which loaf did he enjoy most? It makes me smile when they ask for another slice and you put jam on your bread whilst thinking he must have been very irritating yesterday, I have certainly given this loaf a good thumping Later you can look back over the past few weeks and the amount of bread you have made and remembering how hard you worked it, will show you if you have remembered it correctly. So once you are making loaves you also then have the perfect excuse, to say OH must turn the loaves round etc, allowing you to leave the room before another row brewing gets going.

Then look among your friends, and perhaps speak to someone who has known you for a long time, and that you trust their understanding, and ask them if they have noticed any change in your manner or speech lately, which is noticeably different to your previous pattern. If they know you quite well they may have seen a change in your interests or a health issue that has crept up on you is making a problem, etc. They could say the precise thing that your husband says , but you will be more likely to listen to the actual complaint rather than become defensive with them.

Now is just the time for new short courses and you can say that making bread so successfully has made you want to try other things and give them a go. So you have immediately created 2 or 3 hours where you are learning new skills of some sort and can then go home with something to talk about. If things are getting on top of you, you could arrange to go away for a couple of days with a friend with shared interests so the implications are that you are looking to see what you can learn about by choice, but it does give you that space without necessarily implying you are desperate to get away for a bit.

What about your own wishes? is there an area that you have never discovered, or a wonderful art exhibition that is only there fore a week. You could offer to go together to the particular thing for a day out, or simply state that you are going to x next thursday ,and let him either say he would like to come too or be happy to go on your own or with another person.

Things like this provide you with a breathing space, You may meet some kindred spirits and if you realize that you also have changed and now like different things. If you can genuinely try to see how things are doing things like this for a few months you will have a much clearer space to know whcre you want to go. It may be that the new interest provides you with enough space to be less irritated by his habits, or sadly you may think that you have put in so much effort to sort things out, but either he makes no effort himself, or insists on wanting his own way, then it can be time to go with my old constant suggestion in many cases.

Get two pieces of paper. On one write thoughts of all the positive things there are in your lives and what you are thankful for, after each idea, fold the paper over so you cannot see it, and then later add another idea and do the same. On the other piece, note down all the things that you dont like,whether they are long term annoyances, or recent bad habits and folding them over the same carry on adding to these lists.

When you have a fair few listed things then take time when you are on your own and in a reasonable mood, get another piece of paper and then opening and reading your lists,you then write each sentence on the new piece of paper, but here you are looking at what these sentences show you now. You will find certain sentences refer to habits that you have always had, or new ones,or things that once you loved but now annoy you.

i,e, He always liked to ruffle your hair with his hand as he passed on the way to make coffee, It was one of your little gestures you shared when you first met, but now it drives you mad, and even as he comes nearer to you, you begin to tense up, or even say dont touch my hair I have just had it done.

Once you recognise how many things are now not what they used to be and do you need to have a discussion where you each are honest about things that you once loved but no longer like, but that doesnt mean that you no longer care for each other. You can then think through the groupings you now make for a couple of days and then on a day you feel calm you could explain what you have done and what you have found out and suggest that he try this out himself.

In a few weeks you may find that you now see where the clashes are coming, or perhaps your physical health has changed and now something is actually painful to do in some way. If after this you realize that you still care deeply for each other, you can work out ways of dealing with specific things, or more generally take the time right now to look through the adult classes beginning and chose to join something that yo want to try out. The new interest, meeting others with similar ideas, and gaining skills which are always mentally pleasing and boosting, will also provide you with genuine times to be separate from each other.

In the worst scenario, all these ideas may show that if you have really tried to work things out, all it has done is show you how very far from each other you have become. In that situation I think you could move to an arrangement where you still live in the same place, so still have your friends and interests nearby, but accept that you will now agree to live as separate individuals, where you share costs and house needs but live a life , following your own paths, where you do not expect the other person to fit in with your ideas or your timings , and it becomes a "house share" You are free to go your own ways, and do not get into arguments with each other, but are just able to behave as adults, and go your own way. If that is not possible and it only adds to an up and down relationship, then you may need to look at parting , selling the house, which I think may not necessarily be financially as good as one of you buying the other one out, but mentally if it is sold and things shared out equally, the end result is that you may have a new home each , which you can make it give you what you need, and with that calmer life run in a way that suits you, can mean that you can end up having a better relationship, reverting a little more to the pleasant past view of each other. The tension goes, you can choose to disappear and live elsewhere or stay in the same area. For me I would be prepared to try whatever seemed possible to see if there is a way that you can reinvent your relationship. You have invested so much of your lives together and have much to look back on that was worthwhile. Do remember that all the time you have been together , you have adjusted to all sorts of things but may not notice the actual changing of habits.
However I think there is nothing more sad than to see a couple still outwardly appearing to live as they have done for years, yet not finding any pleasure in their lives, trying to cope with all the hassle that old age can bring, yet finding themselves seething or getting stressed out as they say no way out of the situation, Then when one partner dies, the person left may be full of regrets or look back and feel guilty or even more sad as they see how the last 5 years or whatever became a trial to them both. Sticking your head ,mentally, into the sand, can be fine for a limited time, but no doubt like most of us, you have made decisions together or alone and then stuck with the decision or changed your mind according to circumstances. At least looking at the problems gives you the final choice as to how you can make life at least easier to live with, to still have some joy from your garden or your music or whatever. If you finally come to the conclusion you would be better separating you will know that you did everything you could to find a way to make it work, but that even splitting up ,if done , for the best intentions to improve both of your lives, from the situation that could keep deteriorating further into more unhappiness. Should that be the situation, and the other person dies, you will of course be sad that someone who you spent so much of your life has died, and you were not able to live with them for the last however many years, but I think that is much easier to accept, and can remember the way you found to behave in a civilised way and do not have to feel even worse when you remember horrible arguments and days of upset, words spoken which cannot be taken back. As they say we are only human, and all of us , no matter how we try, are going to say or do things we may regret, but I think that looking at your situation and doing as you have done, asking for ideas and how others have dealt with similar circumstances. It doesnt matter if you ignore every suggestion made or do the opposite . The point is that you are recognising that you need to chose the path to go on, but what does not work is standing at a crossroads and just turning round and round and not following any path but remaining stuck in a place you dont want to be in.

I think you have done very well to realize the situation you are in , before it has got any worse, You can now put all your energy and time into looking at the two or three possibilities that you think may be suitable options, and you may quite enjoy trying out various ideas, hopefully some of the ideas you read about on the posts may help, where your own views are similar to something that is posted, or quite another solution, which has never occurred to you, could be another idea to look at.

The great and varied ideas and knowledge, that you will get from the GN family will no doubt range from something you want to consider to another suggestion that horrifies you and you wonder what on earth that was about. So as it is that learning "start of the school year" time you are now going to be collecting up ideas and looking to see how other people in the past have followed through such a course. I wish you a positive outcome at the end of your journey, whatever it might be. The best of luck in finding the key to happier times

Great post Graphite

I make a timetable, learnt this from CBT sessions, behavioural activation.

You are stuck in a cycle of petty bickering over dog leads, curtains, what time to eat, how hot it is or isn’t and the price of wine.

You cannot control his actions and reactions and he cannot control yours. I doubt you are going to separate of divorce but what you can do is take control of your own life and live more of it out of his orbit.

I think you need a life coach more than a counsellor but you can do this on your own.

Make a list of all the things you like to do or would like to do.

Separate them into five categories, some of which may overlap:

1. Be creative: knitting, crochet, sewing, embroidery, drawing, painting, photography, family history, get an allotment etc.

2. Keep fit and healthy: walk, cycle, swim, gym, Pilates, Tai Chi etc.

3. Meet other people: join U3A and chose one or more interest groups that will give you a new focus and challenge your mind. Or find a class to learn something new, another language maybe. September is the perfect time to be doing this.

4. Volunteer: lots opportunities out there. There was a recent thread where people discussed what they did.

5. Explore: if you have a bus pass and/or senior rail card, use them to go out and visit other places. It will give you confidence to do things on your own if you don’t already have it.

You don’t have to fit all these into a week. Figure out a rotation that will keep you busy but not overwhelm you at the start. You need to be enjoying what you do rather than think of these things as a chore. U3A groups tend to meet once a month. Get yourself a planner and map out when you have free time (do not make the excuse you have housework to do) and start pencilling in how you are going to spend it away from him. Most of those creative things can be done on the move and/or amongst other people that are not him.

The most important thing is to have things in the diary to look forward to.

I honestly don't know what to do.
How can you reason with someone who won't accept they haven't done anything wrong.
I have told him i am going to start going out more without him and suggest he does too.As you commented about your father putting your mother down,he does this to me.
He irritated me when in a restraunt lately when I said id like a White wine he butted in saying "the cheapest one"
He also has his party trick at the bar when asked which wine do I want,he says its only foe the wife so any will do.
He thinks this is funny.

Have you ever tried being a blank canvas? Would you like a cup of tea? Listen to the words he uses, what sort of negative adjectives? What situations rile him? There will be a pattern. Why I ask is that I recognise in this the relationship between my mother and father? He was extremely good at putting my mother down. She would get very upset. If she had not spoken to him and just said: Would you like a cup of tea? It would not have given him an ear. When she died he was very upset. I saw a whole side to him that I wished he had shown her during their 67 years together. He lived another two years and was a completely different person, one I did not recognise. Can you get some sort of counselling yourself? I hope you find a solution.

I seriously think that you should have a break from each other Shimmer. You really don’t need this stress, especially later in life.
Maybe book a week or so away where you can relax and think things through. I realise you look after grandchildren, but I’m sure your husband will manage as he’s so good at it. 🙄 Alternatively, your daughter can arrange care for her children whilst you’re away. Please let us know what you decide to do.

For those suggesting going out on own. When I do he has all sorts of antics to make me late. I only do things like walking with some girlfriends. Or occasionally visiting a couple of old friends I do hope you manage to make yourself feel better

An unhappy marriage is such a lonely place .

Once you notice this Shimmer, you can't un notice it. You are probably both in an elevated state waiting for the next squabble.

Unfortunately I think the problem is much deeper than this.It has been happening for at least 4 years but it is getting a let worse now.
It seems as though everything is a competition of who wins the argument
He complained of being hot this morning and I said its not really that warm now so he started to look at the weather to state that it was still 20c
Its this type of behaviour that's driving me mad

A few years ago we went through something similar , he was snapping and criticising and I bit back . It transpired after a week or so of this behaviour that he was in pain . He had a dreadful dental abcess that he was hiding . When I found out I got him to the dentist and antibiotics and treatment was administered and back came my normally placid and good humoured husband . Maybe your husband is feeling unwell or is in pain . I find men especially bad at admitting they need help . Perhaps a bit of gentle probing might reveal what's going on here .

My husband retired early due to voluntary redundancy
I retired 6 years later
He didn't want me to retire and said id be bored at home
Ive never felt this and am happy to be retired.I think I invaded his space.
The issue I find the most irritating is the fact that he makes out he doesnt have a problem and that its just me

You say this bickering and arguing started a few years ago . Did this coincide with your DH retiring? Some men struggle with retirement.
Do you both have your own interests and hobbies ? My DH and I have our own interests and mutual ones , plus we see friends independently of each other .
I think it’s important to have your own time and interests. Being together 24/7 isn’t good for either of you .

depression? It can manifest itself as irritation.

I struggled with retiring too I managed to keep it going till I was 69 then felt completely devoid so have done 15/20 hours voluntary work for the last 13 years
Its not just men
Once my Dad retired he started cycling round to do people gardens so guess it’s in my genes and mum did dress making in the home and one day a week in a charity shop so guess we re just workers

I divorced my husband after 11 years of marriage and 2 kids, and I have never once regretted doing it. I regretted that it had been the only thing I could do to save my sanity, but he had become a bully and despite couples counselling it was obvious he wasn't going to change. About 25 years later he told me that I'd been quite right to divorce him. Sounds to me as if you may just have reached the end of the line with your spouse. Is there anyone neutral you could go and stay with? Could you embark on a trial separation of, say, 6 or 12 months and just see if you're happier living away from him? Alternatively, is it possible he may have the start of dementia, if his personality has changed? Or has he always been a stroppy argumentative bastard?

I’m wondering what you do for yourself. Do you have any hobbies that get you out of the house? You may already go to a fitness class, book group or sing in a choir. If you don’t you might find spending some of the day doing things for yourself will help. Also you might make new friends.

Gran22boys

Men often struggle with retirement. My DH does. He’s always saying he wishes he was still working. It gave structure to his day.
I pretty much have to organise my DH’s life and have accepted it though I find it frustrating. He always says what are we doing today? My Dad was the same once he retired. He just didn’t know what to do with his time.
I agree that it’s a good idea to take yourself off somewhere so you’re not together all the time.

My grandad was the same, worked until he was 82 picking up glasses in a pub for something to do.
Once that went he gave up & died not long after.

I am wondering why you didn't discuss what time you wanted to eat before making the booking?
With the greatest respect it sounds like both of you have got into the habit of squabbling.
My parents were like this in the their later years - constantly sniping at each other . It didn't seem to bother them but it was very wearing for anyone spending time with them. It's possible that your daughter was distant because she's fed up with listening to you both.

The councilor was from Dove and yes he did come in to one session
I cant remember why

Just an added note
Thanks to everyone for your ideas/ support. I feel so alone at the moment.
Im not sure if i may be imagining it but I felt my daughter was a little distant from me when i saw her earlier, this breaks my heart.I hate the thought that he is saying things about me.
He is always blowing has own trumpet regarding how we look after the grandchildren etc,I just get on with it,i dont need praise. He constantly books for it

Do registered counsellors allow somebody to drop into a session?

Maybe once these patterns and neural pathways are established it is hard to break free.