Mysogony - are women fueling this issue?

AGAA4

I think a woman in an elegant dress and not showing too much flesh is probably more attractive to men than one displaying large areas of bare flesh leaving nothing to the imagination.
That's if they are there to attract men or just to outflesh other women.

I think we are talking about two types of attarctivenenss, the attractivenes of a well dressed woman with an attractive personality who attracts a man throught he bran to the gonads and the kind of dress that is directly sexual and nothing else.

Does a man, I wold say almost any man with a almost naked woman standing in front of him and probably hoping for favours from him - a role in his next film, to be rememebered next time he is casting - will not even beginnto think what an attractive person she is, the simple mechanics of sex will imstantly start to play their role. However the men are not doing the same dressing in a way that akes them an immediate man magent to women present.

I am sure that the women who appear on the red carpet in skimpy, revealing and /or shocking outfits are dressed neither to appeal to men nor women, but to photographers who will get their photographs published in the press.
Hence publicity.

Just as an offside remark, men now account for 10-20% of all cosmetic procedures in the UK and this proportion is growing.

I think a lot of pressure on appearance comes from Instagram & such-like and affects men as well as women.

I do find over-groomed men with over-white teeth, not a hair out of place & baby-soft complexions a bit off-putting (not that any of them are in my catchment area age-wise anyway )

I think a woman in an elegant dress and not showing too much flesh is probably more attractive to men than one displaying large areas of bare flesh leaving nothing to the imagination.
That's if they are there to attract men or just to outflesh other women.

Are you saying that women in skimpy dresses are more likely to behave badly or immorally than men in natty gents' suits?

No, I am saying that at these big celebratory events women wear excessively skimpy clothes, that are all clearly very uncomfortable to attract the attention and possibly advances of the men present, but that the men feel no need to make any effort to attract women, since they know that they are the dominant sex. You could call it the Harvey Weinstein factor.

Loo at these women at the big show business award ceremonies. Women, 95% naked, men swathed in natty gents suiting from head to toe. Why aren't they 95% naked? And their demeanour matches those in the photos.

We associate a way of dress, make-up and demeanour with certain tpes of behaviour and generally we are right.

I'm not sure that works, though.
Are you saying that women in skimpy dresses are more likely to behave badly or immorally than men in natty gents' suits?

I do get very cross when I see women, wearing to what is expected of them on the red carpet, shivering away in barely-there dresses, uncomfortable stilettos, the men warm in suits, socks and sensible laceups.

The women are confirming to stereotypes - time the women rebelled!

paddyann54

Is this the old “it’s what they wear or how they present themselves that’s the problem”
Well I disagree ,no girl or woman should be judged on her clothes or makeup or indeed having procedures,that’s a very outdated view.
Again I feel this site is peopled by women from a different time yet many would have been the mini skirted ,kohl eyed ,kinky booted girls of my and your youth.
Men ,their upbringing ,their influences are the problem ,not girls with boob jobs or plumped lips or scantily clad.
Feminism wasn’t about frumpy clothes and hornrimmed specs .you can look good AND be successful.
Feminism surel was all about choice ..I,ve always chosen to look good as well as run at one point 3 successful businesses .Thankfully no one thought I was incapable because of my eye makeup or my over the knee boots

Unless you meet every new person with your eyes shut and all your senses switched off, you cannot help reaching conclusions about someone coming into your vicinity. If they are shouting and running around wielding an axe. You will not walk up to them first and have chat to see if they are really out of control and wanting to hit people with the axe. You will look, jump to a conclusion and run, possibly even ring 999.

We cannot help but read someone when we first meet them - evene if we quickly change that view. It is not just your dress, but your demeanour the expressions on their face and how they change.

There is a real difference between wearing clothes and styles that suit you and wearing clothes that are sexually provocative. sexual provocation is not just a set of clothes but the movements and demeanour that go with it.

Look at any photowhere men are being 'adored' by women From pictures of James Bond to pornographic magazines and each of us knows what dress and demeanour go with women, trying to be chosen by alpha men for attention where sexual activity is almost a forgone conclusion. Then compare dress and demeanour of some women in real life.

Loo at these women at the big show business award ceremonies. Women, 95% naked, men swathed in natty gents suiting from head to toe. Why aren't they 95% naked? And their demeanour matches those in the photos.

We associate a way of dress, make-up and demeanour with certain tpes of behaviour and generally we are right.

Iam64

How can you blame women for fuelling misogyny? Though I should know better than ask the question.

Wimins Lib has long been blamed for men’s behaviour. Equality gone too far, how can men have self respect if women don’t get back in the kitchen etc etc. .

Indeed, there's a sizeable percentage of men who will jump on anyone and anything that biologically qualifies as female - they're not paranoid or mentally unstable, just plain evil.

And often rich, as we have witnessed. And while money - mere bits of paper and base metal coins - is invested with immense and unwarranted power, then inequality will thrive.

Iam64

How can you blame women for fuelling misogyny? Though I should know better than ask the question.

Wimins Lib has long been blamed for men’s behaviour. Equality gone too far, how can men have self respect if women don’t get back in the kitchen etc etc. .

It's ludicrous, isn't it.

But, as usual, it's the fault of women!

The upsurge in misogyny in teenage boys must be the fault of the girls, of course, nothing to do with the vile online social media they see.

Is this the old “it’s what they wear or how they present themselves that’s the problem”
Well I disagree ,no girl or woman should be judged on her clothes or makeup or indeed having procedures,that’s a very outdated view.
Again I feel this site is peopled by women from a different time yet many would have been the mini skirted ,kohl eyed ,kinky booted girls of my and your youth.
Men ,their upbringing ,their influences are the problem ,not girls with boob jobs or plumped lips or scantily clad.
Feminism wasn’t about frumpy clothes and hornrimmed specs .you can look good AND be successful.
Feminism surel was all about choice ..I,ve always chosen to look good as well as run at one point 3 successful businesses .Thankfully no one thought I was incapable because of my eye makeup or my over the knee boots

How can you blame women for fuelling misogyny? Though I should know better than ask the question.

Wimins Lib has long been blamed for men’s behaviour. Equality gone too far, how can men have self respect if women don’t get back in the kitchen etc etc. .

No women are not victims.

News may reature a few powerless people, not the majority.

Our daughters and granddaughters aren't victims, they make good choices. None have had cosmetic procedures, wear excess makeup or daft clothing - rather they go to University and are quite sporty.

I’m going through the menopause and managing a team of women (and men) some who are going through the menopause. Adjustments made to accommodate these peoples needs are minimal and easy to negotiate. It’s just like any other health issue.

Oreo

Epstein victims apart, there does seem to be a topical theme around women and weakness, the hair extensions/ talons/ tweakments, the parroting of MH problems where none really exist. Chasing shallow celebrities and preferring to have perfect hair and teeth over talent, given a choice.Girls thinking they have to look like porn stars to appeal to boys.
We seem to be going backwards in the liberation of women.

But this does not apply to all women, nor do I think it applies to the majority. Not even young women under 30.

I have an 18year old grand daughter. Yes, she is in to clothes and make-up but certainly not tweakments and cerainly does not dress or ape porn stars or admire them. She is uite focussed, she has good A levels, is going to university Like many well educated young women of her age, her social circle is a group of girls and boys, and few of them are in any kind of relationship, nor necessarily looking for one. She has enough self-confidence not to need a man as an adornment.

So of course it is women's fault! How could it be otherwise.

Have just watched, on Facebook, the latest Led by Donkeys video, and it is about Andrew Tate.
Find it if you can. Sorry that I can't post it to you.
Misogyny on steroids.

I think she's given a lot of women the courage to come forward and admit "wrong is wrong" for anything that has happened to them that shouldnt. I know I feel more empowered personally and am speaking up about things that shouldnt have happened to me way back when.

I see she’s written and published a book and got a new boyfriend I admired her so much during that awful court case and thought how brave she was, I m wondering how she could do it all so soon after that horrendous case . I think I d be off publicity and men for the rest of my life.
However I hope she’s happy snd content and found someone trustworthy

Indeed - one can only admire Gisele for the way she has and still is handling what that awful husband did to her.

I watched my way through an interview with her today and yep....she is definitely admirable for the way she fought back and in such a dignified and public way.

Gisele!

A really good example of 'not a victim' is Giselle Pelicot. But that did take some courage.

Grandmabatty

Why would you blame the victim? No, women are not to blame for any of this, nor are decent men.

Agree with this.
And the reason we don’t hear about positive strong women is because they are not considered newsworthy, but there are plenty around.
And am glad the Epstein case and others like make the news because for some women suffering sex trafficking this may give them hope that they can fight for their rights and escape. Also every woman testifying against Epstein’s cronies deserves our applause for being brave enough to do this.

I think the lines are blurred between the women who undergo all the unnecessary and at times pretty dangerous procedures, as to whether they're doing it for themselves or for a man.

Certain music videos have often depicted women as mere pumped up accessories, often displaying a highly disrespectful view towards the female sex per se, further evidenced by how the likes of Andrew Tate and the now jailed P Diddy have surrounded themselves with women, not as muses, but disposable accessories, treating them mean, espousing the view they can slapped around if they step out of line. Do these women let us all down in a vision where the man is all powerful and they're just pawns if they go along with that of their own volition.

The desire for manufactured butts and boobs, which look like a Jessica Rabbit caricature creates a completely unnatural image of the female form There are high profile women who run with that in turning themselves into an exaggerated form of what women should be. Do they do a disservice to all women with their complicity in turning themselves into a porno version of a male fantasy, thus putting the onus on those who would emulate them, women who may not have had any advantages in life or have the brains and wherewithal to achieve anything meaningful other than use their looks which will become their bargaining chip to latch on to a man who may open doors.

Papers and magazines publish what sells, and sadly, those versions seem to sell.

Why would you blame the victim? No, women are not to blame for any of this, nor are decent men.