Where have all the dads gone?

I couldn't possibly say.
Any man I've known to have sex have been more than willing.

I've never come across that scenario - presumably it's all worked out between the parties involved beforehand.

MissAdventure

Probably rape and all manner of other crimes.
All for the child benefit, guvnor!

I don't think I ever claimed the woman needed benefits. There are some highly qualified professional women who decide they want a child but not a man. Some use a sperm donor, some just use a man. Is he then to be forced to pay for the child?

trisher you really do not like women do you?

Some relationships just break down, too much too soon and it’s over.

There are some very good dads out there who co-parent.
As usual it’s only the bad-ens who get in the news…

Probably rape and all manner of other crimes.
All for the child benefit, guvnor!

MissAdventure

HPV is now recognised as a factor in cervical cancer and throat cancer.
A man owes it to his next partner not to put her at such a risk.

Of course, how is he even to know there will be a next partner?

Well, the women he has babies with is somehow supposed to know he isnt going to be sticking around.

OK so if a man has sex with someone who has asked him to wear a condom and in the middle of the act he tears off the condom it is considered to be rape.
If a woman did the same thing what crime would she be committing?

We once knew a man slightly, who always had this sob story about his wife taking his children out of the country, so that he hadn’t been able to see them for eight years.
One day it came up in conversation that they were actually in Cardiff!
I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry.

I think I've made it clear that I understand that, trisher.

Again, there is no reason a child should suffer.

Both parents looking out for them, supporting them, loving them is enough, even if the parents are no longer together.

HPV is now recognised as a factor in cervical cancer and throat cancer.
A man owes it to his next partner not to put her at such a risk.

Of course, how is he even to know there will be a next partner?

Well, the women he has babies with is somehow supposed to know he isnt going to be sticking around.

MissAdventure

A child isn't an opt in or out responsibility.
If you procreate and make a child, you have to provide for it.

Nothing should change that; not a new partner, arguments, inconvenience, or anything.

That's a wonderful theory unfortunately it doesn't always work in practice and it isn't always the dad's fault.
And the child suffers.

Pregnancy is always a risk where sexual activity is involved, along with chlamydia, HPV, and all kinds of other nasties.

Think I spelt the std wrong!

Urmstongran

^If the father didn't want a child in the first place and was told the girl was using contraception is it still his responsibility?^

? A condom would ensure he was in the driving seat so to speak. Affordable & in control springs to mind.

So no man should trust any woman? It's interesting but it isn't really what happens in relationships is it?
Doesn't the woman bear responsibility if she lied about the situation?

A child isn't an opt in or out responsibility.
If you procreate and make a child, you have to provide for it.

Nothing should change that; not a new partner, arguments, inconvenience, or anything.

MissAdventure
How right you are.
What I really don’t understand though, is do these useless men not care at all about their children? Is their no bond? Aren’t they interested in how they’re doing at school, gymnastics, swimming?
The younger childrens father is completely useless, but not quite as bad. He has them over one day a week, but won’t help out anymore, even though he’s got nothing better to do.
I mean, shouldn’t he actually want to see them?
I just don’t get it.

Thank you for your comments and thoughts. Urmstongran, I have no doubt whatsoever that your DH heard that conversation in Eccles. I sometimes work there and can well believe it!
Gagajo obviously immediately jumped on the usual "blame all the billionaires in government " train, though I am not sure what it has to do this discussion.
Maddy one. You speak much sense.
The thing is that these families are not supported by "the government". They are supported by us, the taxpayer. A dear friend of mine only had one child. She and her DH are the best parents any child could ever wish for, but they are both on low incomes and could only afford to give one child a decent upbringing, so only had one child. She says she resents the tax they pay being given to women who have what she decided she couldn't afford.
What does annoy me (and this may be another discussion really) , is women who won't put the fathers name on the birth certificate, so he can't be asked to pay anything .

So true hollysteers. You have hit the nail on the head.

If the father didn't want a child in the first place and was told the girl was using contraception is it still his responsibility?

? A condom would ensure he was in the driving seat so to speak. Affordable & in control springs to mind.

Let’s face it Urmstongran many people (and I know of them) know how to work the system, as do politicians and business people.
My niece made sure she produced five children before 2017?

Yes having a large family wouldnt influence those benefits.

Those benefits are the same across the board.
They arent particular to single parents.

Thanks Trisher for a balanced post. This thread had done a lot of dad bashing - and justifiably so in many cases. But there is another side to the story and many dads are conscientious and caring. My DS was very upset by the attitude that he must be at fault - i.e. that he had walked out - when his ex decided she didn't want him.

hollysteers

trisher

Let's face facts there are as many different stories about and reason for someone being a single mother as there are reasons and stories about marriages and families. No situation is typical. There are girls who get pregnant because they want a baby and girls who get pregnant because they think the bloke might stay with her. There are fathers who abandon their children and mothers who chuck out the father. There are fathers who fight for their children and fathers who find it easier to stop seeing them. There are fathers who pay and fathers who don't.
What's the common denominator- children. The CSA was set up supposedly to make sure children were financially cared for, it plainly isn't working. But it's very obvious that a child brought up by one parent is going to be worse off financially than one brought up by two and that because women still earn less than men a child brought up by a mother will be worse off than one brought up by its dad. So is it beyond this country financially to provide adequate financial support to all children from birth to 18? Of course it isn't. But it suits a certain agenda to allot blame and castigate someone, sometimes the mother, sometimes the father. rather than meet what is an obvious need.

Of course there are many different reasons for the preponderance of single mothers, but the main reason is society’s acceptance of it.
No one wants to go back to the bad old days of back street abortions and shame, but it is natural to castigate someone when we find ourselves in this mess of father free children.
Wouldn’t it be better for the parties concerned to take some responsibility for their actions?

So how exactly will you judge that? If a father is thrown out by the mother who makes it difficult for him to see his children will he still be expected to contribute. If the mother has a new boyfriend who doesn't live with her but is contributing financially would that make a difference?
If the father didn't want a child in the first place and was told the girl was using contraception is it still his responsibility?
It doesn't help the child to try to blame anyone, whereas providing proper financial support does.

Yes, it's easier to just sweep the past and everyone in it under the carpet, Sara1954

That's what happened to me, history was conveniently rewritten, I became a "one night stand" and that was that.

It’s not just about the 2-child benefit though Galaxy

www.singleparents.org.uk/information/benefits/financial-support-for-single-parents

The government (taxpayers) pay out as if you get income support, you can get free prescriptions, dental treatment, sight tests, glasses, fares to hospital etc.

If you're a single parent or on a low income, you may be able to claim to other benefits, such as income support, income-based jobseeker's allowance (JSA), or housing benefit. If you're on a low income and receive certain benefits, you may also be able to get a council tax reduction.

How many on here have grown up children who are on their second (or more) "dp"?

MissAdventure
That’s so sad and so horrible.
My heart breaks for all these abandoned children.
In the case of my own granddaughter, she has also seen the gradual withdrawal of her other grandparents, who she was very close to when she was younger.
I think they are ashamed and embarrassed by their son, and find it hard to keep coming up with excuses, although, God knows his mother tries!
My daughter frequently suggests they meet up, but they seem reluctant.