Have you told your child how much they hurt you, and does it help?

I had this situation a few years ago. I used to do everything with my daughter and then when our granddaughter came along it was the three of us. We had days out, lunches, theatre trips etc.
My DD then became friends with a girl who, in my opinion, totally took over my DD's life. They spent as much time together as possible. The girl's mother was often invited to nights out, lunches etc. I was not invited. Sometimes the girl's mother's friends were invited too but not me. They were in a clique. I was outside. DD also went out for meals etc with the girl's parents too.
I was upset and unfortunately list my temper with my daughter and she was furious. She said 'I have no idea what you are talking about', It nearly caused a permanent rift which would have been awful.
DD has now fallen out with this girl and I think she's realised what was happening.
I would say try not to be upset. Things have a habit of turning around.

Perhaps, by trying to not be intrusive, your daughter is thinking that you don't want more.
She could be just as upset as you, thinking you're being aloof.
You'll never know if you don't ask.

I have been in a very similar position and advise you to tread carefully. I never had a good relationship with my mum, she never liked me and has pushed me away for as long as I remember. Nothing I ever did was good enough. I lost my Dad last year so I am of no use to her now so she has nothing more to do with me.
I had issues with my sons who are both in their late 20s with wives children of their own. I have been really hurt by both if them over the past few years and it seems to follow a pattern in that they only want me when they ask for help. My youngest cut me out of his life 6 months ago when I told him how used I felt, and more recently my eldest has done exactly the same after I said how upset I was that he referred to his stepmum as his mum when posting publicly that she had died. Anyone reading this could have assumed I had died! Their father and I divorced over 10 years ago and I have a new partner and they didn't seem to like the fact that I wasnt dangling on a string when they decided they wanted something and have been critical of my choices although I dont do this to them! It's so unfair but unfortunately we just seem to have to 'suck it up' when our children upset us as they dont like being told about it. We walk on eggshells around them but they write us off all to easily.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do but do proceed with caution ?

I forgot to say that a longer stay would mean you could maybe give your DD a day off whilst you see your GD in her own home with her own toys etc, or take her out. You could also babysit in the evening/s. Or you could help DD with tasks like tidying the garden...and of course take them all out for a cream tea or evening meal at some point.

A stay of one day means you can't do anything much, so less chance to bond, or to help or to treat.

I’m wondering, because of the problems with your mum, ( and I understand that entirely), you may be misinterpreting things with your daughter. Sometimes, I think things become ‘real ‘because we expect them to, and that’s not actually how it is at all. What you see with the in laws, may not be how it actually is, and your daughter may have hated every minute, as someone else said. You say your daughter has young children and is tired, and most likely oblivious to all of this. Don’t assume you’ll go the same way as you and your mother, just be kind, offering support if she needs it, and you’re able to give it. Act completely naturally. I would worry, that your loving daughter may change if you show your inadequacies in any way, particularly as you live a distance away. Nothing wrong with staying in a hotel, but ask her what she would like next time. Don’t make a problem where there possibly isn’t one at the moment.

Please, do not put anything in writing, e mail or otherwise. In my experience it can be misinterpreted and brooded over for years if someone decides to use it as evidence of a perceived grudge. You may see it as an attempt to put things right, they may see it as a criticism aimed to provoke and antagonise.

Your DD lives a long way away so a visit of 2-3+ days or a week would be reasonable. To me staying in a hotel would be the choice too, far easier to have relaxing time and no disturbed sleep for you or disturbed routines for your DD's family.

To stay longer would mean you could spend periods of time doing your own thing and taking pressure off your DD. Then just meeting up for an afternoon, or evening or day out....after discussing thoroughly with each other of course. Then both parties aren't overwhelmed.

You say your DD is loving...how lucky is that. 'On her terms'...isn't that her right? I think you should let go and live more of a life of your own, to be so upset seems over the top to me and you may be expecting her to make your life happy...she is now independent with her own family and pressures and needs.

The other family seems overbearing and probably a damn nuisance when they are there. Ignore them. Just be thankful you are a considerate person whose daughter loves you. Keep your feelings to yourself, deal with your emotions without putting it onto your DD or risk making things worse. Instead calmly talk and try and negotiate a better scenario for future visits. Listen to your DD...and between you work out the best ways which suit both parties when you visit.

Sorry to hear this. I think you could talk it over with perhaps the suggestion that you go out for a meal/picnic with the children. Stay for two days in the hotel and perhaps babysit for them to have a night out? A work colleague who always dreads her mother coming to visit, does so because her mother “tidies up, finds jobs to do” which leaves her irritated because she feels her mother is judging her. If you stayed in the hotel for two nights it wouldn’t feel so overwhelming for her providing you weren’t with her all day. She loves you but not all mothers and daughters get along. I always have to step back and let my daughter take the lead. It works because she does all the arranging and fits us in to her busy life in her terms. She is an organiser and some would say a control freak! Hope this helps.

Nannan2 - you are a bit cut and dried! I think it is emotional, being elderly and navigating relationships with AC, never mind COVID, and being a widow during Covid must be tough. I agree with others, try to find a way to have some time alone with your daughter next time you plan a visit and ask her if there is anything on her mind which may create a distance between you. Good luck and virtual hug!

Oh Flopen I know exactly where you are coming from. Your situation virtually mirrors one i had a few years ago with my own daughter who lives some 200 miles away. She is my eldest and after she went to uni we really became detached from each other. She spent more time with her boyfriends parents than with us. It got worse when she married the in laws paid for most of it because at the time we were going through bad times financially and couldnt afford the flash wedding she wanted. In saying that still paid over 4k towards it. That day was horrendous as they seemed to take over and the mother on law became her real mother. I didn't know what to do. When I tried to express my feelings she just shot me down. I felt lost. When she had her first child she asked us to come and see her and the baby and i said we would stay in a hotel if she wanted us to she agreed. However when I found out the in laws had been and stayed with them I was furious. In my mind I felt pushed out and unwanted I couldn't get my head round it at the time until I found out exactly what was going on. It turned out they had just said they were coming and expected (quite selfishly) to stay with them. My daughter had no say in it because she didn't want to upset her husband. It was horrendous for her not knowing what to do for the best. I only found this out by sitting down and talking to her. She did say things that upset me which I won't go into and she said I upset her we both ended up crying but in the end resolved the situation and other issues which I didn't even know existed all because we had stopped talking. I had missed so many issues that should have been resolved at the time. We are closer now than we have ever been and gone through a lot of heartache together which again I will leave for another post. So my advice is to talk face to face. Texts and letters can be misunderstood and not taken in the correct context. When you speak to someone face to face you can see their reaction and work with it. Sometimes you have to really get to the nitty gritty of a situation even if its a scary place to go. You just have to go there otherwise you will just carry on feeling bitter towards her until in the end you just don't speak at all then its too late. Good luck i really hope you get this sorted out.

Imputed! Sorry

Polnan, maybe youre reading too much into it too- maybe its not about 'entertaining' you- although we all remember when we were young- & how we felt if family or in- laws just 'turned up' on doorstep dont we?? Also they might not want you 'doing the jobs they have to do' it implies you think theyre not doing things right/enough or whatever- also they may just want their weekends as family time just for relaxing themselves or doing their own thing- more so if they both work all wk- i dont see why you cant drive in the dark? If you can drive, you can drive, cant you? (As my son says, " i have car lights mum" when i worry about him on rds at night!) If you cant SEE properly after dark, then maybe you shouldnt be driving at all- or could you get a taxi to theirs, & maybe they can drop you back off later? Or maybe you can go maybe only once a month or something to Give them breathing space a bit? Just to 'get you out of the house' sounds a bad excuse to visit your family- if i visit my AC its because i love& miss them & wish to see them to enjoy their company occasionally, not to have a trip out to get me out of the house- cant other things get you out a bit? A nice walk? A visit to a friend? A stroll round the shops? I appreciate its harder in a pandemic, as we cant join clubs etc but theres still some things to do just to get you out a bit other than heading straight to their house every weekend surely? And if you are in your own house- how about a bit of sorting, gardening, baking or a hobby to entertain yourself?? Why have to 'get out' all the time? I dont understand all this 'over emotional' stuff a lot of gransnetters are saying about? Life is what it is at the moment, upsetting yes, but we have to accept it, for now, and have a bit of backbone, & get on with things.

Please don't send her an email. Written things get mulled over and other feelings and views get impuned.
I suggest you go down on your own, offer to babysit, stay on your own on the air bed which will be more comfy. Offer to buy then a sofa bed of you have funds.

I wouldn't share these thoughts with your daughter, she will find them hurtful and once said can't be taken back. It sounds as if you do have a loving relationship so I would hang on to that. What does it matter if someone else stayed since you have already said that you preferred not to? I stayed in a B&B in order to see my daughter and her family because it would have been a squeeze and it worked really well. We retreated when we had had enough! It wouldn't have bothered me if her parents in law had stayed there as it is their choice. It is a mistake to compare ourselves to others and imagine there is greater affection on one side than the other. Just keep on loving your daughter and her family.

I find it quite telling that your response to sensing your daughter is pulling away from you is to focus on how you feel and how upsetting it is making you.

Rather than - why? Why is my daughter pulling away from me?

It could be that she finds you only staying one night in a hotel, that you can`t be bothered staying longer. Communicate is the key but hard to do and not cause a further problem. Hope you sort it out.

We stay in a hotel when we visit our daughter as well! There is physically no space in their house to even put an airbed down. We're not all tripping over each other to share the bathroom either. Much less stressful for all concerned.

Was your daughter actually happy about the in-laws staying several days and your granddaughter staying up late?
You say she's loving, but on her terms, so what aren't you happy about there?
Is she relaxed while you're there and does she enjoy your visits?

You say that it is your choice to stay in a nearby hotel. But for only one night.
It must seem like you fly in and fly out to your DD and family !
Maybe your DD has got the idea that because you spend so little time , that you don't really want to be there and it is just a courtesy visit.
Is there any way that you could stay for longer? Or would it be possible to spend the hotel cost on renting a caravan for a long weekend for you all to stay in ( your DD and family could be classed as your "bubble") .
Either way, nobody can read your mind and unless you explain your feelings to your daughter, she will never know. Begin by telling her about the relationship that you had with your own mother and that you don't want your relationship with DD to be the same.
Until then, you are just repeating history, whether you want to or not!

flopen - I too had a problematic relationship with my mother and I too tried very hard not to be that kind of mother to my 2 DS's.

Even now, when they have moved out and are adults I sometimes wonder if I should have done things indifferently as the relationship with the older one is a bit tricky.

I would try not to read too much into the in-laws staying with them when you have chosen not to. You could always say to your DD next time you plan to visit "I know we normally stay in a hotel when we come to see you because we don't want to foist ourselves on you all. If you'd rather we stayed with you instead please tell me" or similar.

For all you know, she found the in-laws stayng an absilute nightmare but hasn't told you because she doesn't want to cause embarrassment.

When i visit most of my ac (only 1 lives nearby, & 2 youngest at home) we always stay in hotel overnight(well, before covid19) but because we want to(tried stay at sons/daughters once or twice but very cramped& on sofas etc. So not for us.(me& 2 youngest,17&21) but maybe if you suggest staying at theirs theyd think you want to, as in laws must do? Try it next time.but you may be reading too much into it maybe.

It sounds like the other grandparents are more forthright in their wishes and that your own family dynamics are quite different. You want the closeness that you imagine they have with them but you don’t want to be overbearing and demanding to gain that, as you have bitter memories of that with your own mother. Every family is different and maybe it needn’t be that black and white. Perhaps you can find your own way to get a little closer....not like your mother...not like the other GPs. If you can, perhaps stay a little longer and maybe get a little more involved and don’t be frightened of that. You will I’m sure, come up with your own things to try but I’d aim to tread a middle path and just let them realise that yes, you are there, and yes, you do want to spend more time with them, and see where that takes you. Good luck.

If you offered to stay for a couple of nights, maybe suggest you could babysit one of the nights to let your daughter have a night out. You get to see you GC and they get to relax.

When I visit my daughter I stay in a nearby hotel as my daughter has four children and it’s a busy house, therefore I find it easier (and I’m sure she does too) as I don’t want to disrupt their busy lives and we can arrange to see each other, that way I know she wants to spend time with me and I’m not in the way.

There are positives with staying in a hotel - no children bounding in at 6am, a leisurely breakfast then feel refreshed when you join the family. We only live in a small flat and started booking our family (4 adults, 4 children under 10) into a nearby hotel when we all want to get together. The grandchildren love it especially the buffet breakfast. They love it if we join them for breakfast and they can explain the system to us.

This is only a hunch and I don't want to hurt you but could your daughter feel that you are pulling away from her? My instinct would be for a gesture (or card, flowers whatever) that would tell her how much you love her. I have undertaken to always visit my children by staying in a nearby B & B for their sakes because I remember the stress my parents caused when they stayed in our small house. And they remember that too!

I real feel for you this must be so hard. Firstly I think you need to address your issues with your Mum through counselling or if that's not an option financially, by opening up to a suitable friend who will listen and guide you not preach. Through this you can find ways that will ensure past behaviours are not repeated. Secondly, I hardly dare suggest in case it makes you even more upset - be aware of coercive control. It may not be the reason, but keep your eyes and ears open. Do you speak to any of her school friends - are they still in touch with her, what is she posting on social media - any changes or has it stopped? I agree with @Grandmabatty as well - there's often two sides!! Good luck