Difficult DIL- time to deal with it?

Not a DIL but my own daughter. When we lived in the same town, I was always helping, babysitting etc. At one point we had a major arguement in public and I walked away. My D would range from being a loving caring daughter to being extremely nasty and all points in between.
The argument cleared the air and they moved to a larger house shortly afterwards, (not as a result of our argument), and our relationship began to slowly improve since I was no longer at her beck and call 24/7.
Now, after 16 years, we accept that we both have separate lives, with separate and joint friends. Our relationship is now closer than ever but there are times when we clash but I no longer agonise over it and will answer her back, especially when she talks to me as though I'm a child, (an answer like "yes mum" usually has us laughing).
It has taken a lot of hard work, give and take from both of us and compromise.
With the OP, step away, let your DIL have her 'space' and ask your son to bring the children to visit on his own, to give DIL a break. Invite DIL to family birthdays, Christmas etc and leave it to that. Send her money or tokens for her Birthday and Christmas and a pretty card so that she can choose her own gifts. Continue being polite and friendly, continue inviting her to join you but don't stress if DIL chooses not too attend.
Sometimes, as has already been stated, we just don't get on with people, and it's best to give these people space, and not to force attendance.
My youngest sister and I simply do not get on and only meet when it's unavoidable. We are politely formal, speak through gritted teeth, on her part, and spend as little time as possible in each others company. At all other times there is no contact.
It might well be that this is the relationship the OP will have with her DIL, unfortunately but remaining polite and friendly for the sake of son and GCS.

Even if you phrase it as "give DIL a break", asking your son to bring the children without his wife may not be very well received.

If a DIL is feeling hostile to her MIL, and does not trust her, the last thing she wants to do is to allow her children around said MIL without adequate supervision, and in those circumstances the DH may not seem adequate supervision. Why would you trust your children to someone you don't like?

I'm not saying that that is right, but it is the way some DILs feel, so asking for time with the kids without DIL may get you into even more trouble. If you want a relationship with your grandkids, you need a relationship with both their parents.

Find a way to work on the relationship with your DIL, not by sitting her down and demanding answers. Learn to love her. Find out how she thinks a positive relationship looks like, and do that.

Aggy 21 Your question seems to have become a little lost in others' experience, which at least shows you that you are not alone in this problem.

You say that both you your son and daughter in law have become more distant and formal in the course of the last ten years, so unless you know of something that happened ten years ago that caused this, I am afraid that you will just have to accept that they seem to want a formal relationship with you and your DH.

The next point is that your DH obviously feels that the atmosphere when the family visits is unpleasant.

I'm afraid that the suggestions that you should take a step back and actually do less, instead of falling over yourself to be nice is the only workable route, here.

If you try to get either your son or DIL to explain what they feel has gone wrong in your relationship, you might well end in a nasty family quarrel, which I am sure none of you want, and that you would all regret later. Any such quarrel would probably lead to your not being able to see your grandchildren, at all.

I'm sorry if this is not the answer you were looking for, but I am nearly certain that it is the best way to solve the problem.

See less of the family and perhaps when you do invite them, invite other family members or friends at the same time.

I hope this will lead to the atmosphere becoming easier.

I know what it is like to have a DIL like yours. After 10 years I gave up hope, stay to myself. Not seeing our grandchildren hurt the most. Her own parents got all the first and we got nothing leaving us out. Yes, it hurts but decided she was not worth it. Thank goodness our son still talks to us by face time in his office away from house.

That's what I was wondering. Neither ELC nor NC appears on the acronyms. I occasionally give up on some of these messages as they get too complicated to decipher.

Aggi, you can’t allow your DIL to make you so unhappy. Let it go. Try to see your GC’s without her around. It’s the only way to keep the atmosphere from becoming poisonous. Perhaps if you are a little more distant the atmosphere will change although I would not count on it. My DIL and I maintain as little connection as possible, although she still relies on our help regularly with the GS’s. Why this situation occurred I have no idea, and with the current state of affairs I have no desire to find out. Time and space may be the answer!

ELC = extremely low contact

NC = no contact

Hope it becomes easier to live with

Aggy21 I am so sorry to hear you have this situation. It is all too common. I do have a counselling background, and sadly can only say you cannot do more than you are doing already. I would not try and talk things over with her, I think she might well use it to be difficult. It is most likely she has her own problems and is using you as a dumping ground. The mother of the husband is likely to be an object of jealousy, especially if she knows she does not always behave well. I can only ask you to hang in there and try not to be too sensitive. I know how hard that is! I suffer terribly in a bad atmosphere. If you find it difficult, try to leave the room or house, not in a hostile way but just "for a stroll". Remember it is her, not you. I suspect that the harder you try to make things better, the more difficult she may be. It really is a very common situation. I would try and keep contact fairly short and sweet and see if you can take out the GCh without their parents, or babysit while mum and dad have some time out together.

It isn't speculative agnurse when you have an email from your ES prior to the eventual CO in which he states "we'll never stop you from seeing ..... because we know how much you love him".

When your love for your GC is acknowledged, when no reason for the CO is given and when it happens you're prevented from having any contact with your GC, how else would you describe the way your GC are being used other than as weapons.

I do feel sad for you . I have told my daughter that this is the woman who brought up the man she loves and that if she is unkind to her, she cannot be surprised if her husband treats me in the same fashion. Try your hardest to rise above it, easy to say but harder to do. Good luck.

My first MiL loved me and I her. Very sad when passed away. I divorced husband and 5yrs later met a lovely guy and we’ve now been married 23yrs. I was shocked to find my 2nd MiL did not like me one little bit. I maintained my friendly demeanour to her and was very nice to her whilst ensuring DH kept in frequent contact with his Mum. Sadly MiL did everything she could to split us up. I eventually realised she really did not want her son to marry anyone. I take a back seat but remain quietly friendly. It is sad but it’s just the way some people are.

It takes two to have an argument, on one hand a new mother is nervous of mother in law, on the other MIL can be too helpful and intrusive. Something went wrong in the past and it is time a truce was declared they need to meet and have a heart to heart and if I was MILs husband I would insist.
We had 3 daughters and they all made a big effort to be friends with respective MILs, many years on they are all firm friends. My problem is their relationship with their mother is touchy and too much alcohol at parties needs watching if someone says the wrong thing

I had a similar situation with my SIL, she just didn't like me, and refused all my efforts to be friendly towards her. It can be easy to blow things out of proportion, and lose focus. With my SIL, she refused to talk to me when I tried to clear the air, and ran to my BIL, who then accused me of "bullying" her, and this caused a massive row. Sometimes we have to accept that despite our best efforts, the best way forward is to be civil to the person concerned, and just leave it at that. I've now come to peace with the fact that my SIL has a problem with me, and that's her business, not mine. At family gatherings, I'm civil to her, and just leave it at that.

Luzdoh fantastic advice.

It’s hard being disliked and I think it’s a good idea to remember it may be nothing to do with you but rather perceptions of you.

Having said that, a very good friend has a DiL (who seems very pleasant to me), and my friend endlessly complains about her DiL in VERY loud stage whispers while her DiL is in the same room. My friend honestly can’t understand why her DiL doesn’t like her although it’s abundantly clear to anyone else who is in the same room!

Hopefully I am not as tactless with my SiL but, of course, I have no control over his perceptions of MiLs in general and me as an MiL in particular!

Anyway, try to be calm, don’t (in my view) start discussing any perceived problems with your DiL and be happy to see your DC with your son.

??

Have you considered that perhaps your DILs attitude has nothing to do with you at all?

Perhaps she is having health problems, difficulties at work, worries over her own parents health or marital difficulties, and because your relationship is that one step removed she doesn't feel so pressured to pretend that everything's ok.

Instead of inviting everyone over, why not try offering to babysit for the GCs now and then, and let her see that you can be a positive force in her life rather than just another obligation.

Once again I find myself disturbed over this endlessly repeated scenario coming up in our GN posts whereby DiLs treat their MiLs abominably and we advise each other to just suck it up.

Specifically what disturbs me is what we are modelling when we do that: "It's OK to treat me like shit because I have no power".

I don't have a clear cut easy answer / manual on how to proceed around contemptuous DiLs but I do think we have a responsibility to stand in our truths and 'model' something better than victim-stancing to younger generations.

AmMaz I think you are right but I also think /know how easy it is to fall into a pattern of behaviour in this type of family dynamic of putting up with/ validating/ allowing/ bending over backwards etc etc because of other considerations..ones own son/grandchildren/family relationships/ "keeping the peace"/maintaining at least some sort of family relationship ...or whatever the dynamics are in each particular case!

AmMaz unfortunately when you’re dealing with someone who has an agenda with you, all the standing up to them in the world won’t help. In fact, it gives them ammunition to heap more blame on you. “See, I told you she is the one causing the problem”. It then confirms their belief that you are not fit to see your grandchildren. It puts your son in a difficult position, and that’s before you think of the effect it all has on your health.

Because I have stepped away and “sucked it up” my son has seen for himself over several years that the treatment of me from his wife has been appalling. Sadly, the trouble it has caused has led to him taking steps to end his marriage. I can only imagine how bad things must have been for him to do that. It gives me no pleasure, in fact I might just as well have fought back. The end result couldn’t have been much worse.

As a qualified counsellor, I would say that asking is always the best policy, as people can fall out for the stupidest of reasons. Simply say, "whenever we are together, it doesn't feel as good as I would like it to feel. Why do you think that is?". It shows that you want to improve matters and will hopefully lead to meaningful communication. I hope this helps.

DeeWBW I agree ...but of the response is complete denial of any problem and an implication/statement that any problem is yours...there is nowhere to go in the end. Eventually acceptance that it is what it is is probably best , but not was

Of course, if you open a conversation about what is wrong, you do have to be prepared to be told what is wrong and you probably won’t like it!

Only do it if you can take criticism.

Nobody is universally liked.

I’m afraid OP that when someone says they are very sensitive I have usually found they mean that they get upset easily but have a hide of a rhino when it comes to other people’s feelings. Could that possibly be you?

Are you ready for daughter in law to tell you......

Hi there...I think I’m the ‘crazy dil’ in this thread that the poor gran is lamenting. Not truely but definitely a similar story! I’ve actually come here to try and understand her way of thinking to try and be a better person. For starters, my mil and I had a great relationship but when we had our first baby there was a definite shift. The whole wedding thing wasn’t painful at all...I really wouldn’t have cared less if she wore the same colour dress as me. With my pregnancy she got so excited (understandable) that I found it really overwhelming. She couldn’t stop popping in to the hospital. She wanted to stay and chat with all my friends. When we arrived home she would drop in unannounced waking me up from a nap (yep...I would try and have a little snooze in the day). She’d repeatedly ask that we’d take Bub to visit her mother in a nursing home. Totally understandable I know; but I found it really annoying that she was reminding us every day...we had a 1 week old. It was new to us. Of course I wanted to visit all our family when we were ready. When we went to the nursing home she introduced the staff to her son and grandchild completely leaving me out. I was still waddling from having just given birth. I know it was a slip up and she was excited but right then I felt that I was insignificant to her. And all the kindness and manners and nice gestures from then on over the past 7 years (she really does try to be so kind) is just fake and not genuine at all. Truth be told; I feel like she’s only being kind because she wants to be involved with the grandchildren. Not because she genuinely cares about me at all. So for me; every compliment is just fake. It’s really difficult to be around. Maybe I’m wrong but I’m just putting it out there because it is how I feel on a very deep level. I’d love to talk to her about it but I don’t know how? We visit every birthday/Christmas/Easter/occasion and if it’s been a few weeks we’d visit. But I find it’s never enough. There’s always MIL trying to plan another way in. The irony is that they only live in the next suburb. Maybe too close but I don’t want to move because we live so close - I just fear that we tempt her by being close. She wants to know dates for when we’re around or if we’re going on holidays and she is obsessed with our happenings. I’m not meaning to be negative but for me it’s just so full on. I’m paranoid at every outing that she’ll take hubby aside and suss our our whereabouts in the coming weeks/months so she can plan when to see us. I am lucky to be a stay at home mum and I know she wants more / time alone with my kids but I honestly feel like she would only build a relationship with the kids that makes her feel good and needed. Ie: I know she enjoys my nieces tantrums because her niece runs past my sil to have her nana cuddles. I also know that my MIL enjoys giving my kids junkfood to make them like her but again I think this is awful. My fil gets very grumpy with little kids (yells at them if they touch his glass door and leaves little prints) and every time we go over there he fires a little comment my way in judgement of how I do things. Why would I want to go there? They always make the kids pose for photos and fil grumps if they don’t participate the way he’d like them to pose. But again; I feel like this is all about filling up their cup. So they can look like they have the perfect happy family but for me it just isn’t genuine knowing that my 1 year old just got grumbled at for not sitting still in the photo. I’m trying my hardest to raise 3 kids for the better of the world and I feel like my in-laws are just in it for themselves. If they could offer knowledge or wisdom on how to cook or sew or plant herbs in their garden then that would be incredible. But really; they just want to make themselves happy. That’s how I feel ?

aggy I see this is an old thread from May 2018. Did you ever get this situation sorted?

Dilthatstrying What a very sad situation,.
They sound extremely selfish and I don't blame you for not wanting your poor little children to be around such ultra-controlling, grumpy people.

It seems to me you have tried your best - and it's changed nothing. Well, in your situation I'd just say 'enough is enough' and keep away as much as possible.

Sooner or later, your children will choose for themselves, 'Aw, do we have to go see them?' and the elder may see what they have lost by their selfish actions - but somehow I doubt it. People that self-centered are often incapable of considering anyone else's feelings.