Regrets about being estranged from people..

A few years ago, my much younger, and much loved Brother suddenly distanced himself from me when we had always been very close. I could not understand why, all I did know that his personality had changed. It got to a point where I could not talk to him, so relied on emails. The last one that he sent contained such Vitriol, that I had to tell him that whilst I loved him dearly and always will. I will always be there for him if he needed me, regardless, but for now enough was enough. This decision was absolutely heartbreaking, but I had no choice believe me.
Then right out of the blue about 18mths later, my Brother 'phoned me
His first words were "Hi Sis, I think that we have a bridge to rebuild".
I cried as I told him that our bridge was never destroyed, never would be.
Only then did I find out that my Brother had been suffering with PTSD. Someone had poured petrol over him, and tried to set him alight. Thank Goodness this person failed as they were wrestled to the ground just in time by several people. That is just the beginning of the story, it gets worse, but enough said.
I am just so glad that I did not burn any bridges and alienate my Brother, and we are once again best of friends.

in my case I have discovered that my father may have caused rifts so family members kept away and isolated my mother so they could not witness what was happening so he could continue to control my mother for his own selfish needs. Thanks to a plan of his backfiring

Oops posted too soon...
...my mother is safely in the care system but he is now trying to control me with emotional blackmail/refusing to let me have authority to speak to the hospital so I am totally reliant on him to get news of my mother and I have no way of finding out whether he is telling me the truth or just his version of it

Sorry - mant "acceptance".

I defo don't doubt the experiences people are sharing here and one of my least favourite sayings is: 'oh, it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other'. In my experience, it never is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.. and when people say that, it basically says to the real victim: you're just as bad...

...what worries me a bit, is when people talk about others as being 'toxic'....but don't seem to mention or recognise if they themselves have any part at all in how things worked out.. Some people are defo worse than others, but none of us are perfect or anywhere near perfect. It's rough feeling like we should stand in judgement of others worth...and throw them away if they get judged worthless.. You can guarantee that another person will say that that person is fine, and good.. It's so subjective and all part of what's gone on in the past, people with grudges influencing other people etc.. In my case, I left my first husband and for 15 years he's waged a war against my reputation and 99% succeeded in destroying my relationship with my daughter..making me look like a vile individual, and making himself look like an angel. It's more easily done than people would think. And to fairly innocent people too - labelling them 'toxic' on the basis of hidden agendas..

After what I've been through with this, I could never ever throw someone away. They were literally have to be Adolf Hitler or something..

Jem

I am estranged from my toxic sister, for over a year now. She is a complete controlfreak with a frightening temper. I only wish I had cut her out of my life much sooner, then she wouldn't have been able to cause so much pain and sorrow.

Notyetgran, this is something I tried to rationalise over the years. When I was little, I felt that I had a dirty secret and that I was as much to blame as my sister. Then, when I got older, I told myself that all kids play "doctors and nurses." Not that what happened was just on the "I'll show you mine and you show me yours" level. It was much more than that, and I found it incredibly difficult to put into words to my counsellor, so I'm not going to attempt it here. Enough to say it was intimate, intrusive and has undoubtedly affected my sexual experiences for the rest of my life. Anyway, in my teens, I wrote it off as "play" and buried it away.

It was not until I had my own daughters, who also have an age gap of several years between them, that I looked at them and realised that it would not be normal for the older one to do such things to the little one. I also realised that it wouldn't happen with my girls - they wouldn't even shower together unless they were both wearing pants! - and that big sisters didn't normally do these things to little ones. I saw that something was wrong but I didn't want to think about it, so I buried it away.

It isn't easy, though, to keep things buried. In later years, there were a number of occasions where my sister made remarks that seemed like sheer hypocrisy to me - where she would condemn someone, particularly a child, for molesting another child (she had a friend who worked with disturbed children, who used to tell her these things) and I wanted to scream, "But you did it too!" She also said that a friend's sister who accused him of abusing her when they were kids (oddly enough, when he was 10 and she was much younger)was a liar who had been "put up to it" by her husband and psychiatrist. (Never seemed to occur to her that it might have been the reason why she needed a psychiatrist in the first place.) She was vehement about it, although she had never met the woman, and I had a horrible feeling she would say something similar about me if I ever dared to open my mouth.

Would I ever have confided in anyone, if my sister and I were not estranged? I don't know - maybe not. But I did, and my family were appalled. They considered it abuse. I went a bit crazy for a while, and my daughters took me to my GP, who sent me to a charity dealing with women who had been sexually abused as children. The lady who listened to my story in the first place, and the counsellor who listened patiently every week for a year, were very kind. They were in no doubt that it was abuse, given the age gap between us, the seriousness of what was done, and the fact that it went on till my sister was in her teens (even after she had started dating the man she would later marry.) I don't know whether it is abuse when a 10 year old does these things to a 5 year old, or if it changes at some point between 10 and 15. I suspect that, if she had been a boy, it would be more readily identified as abuse. That is another thing that makes me feel weird about myself, the fact that it was incest between sisters instead of brother-sister, which seems to be much more documented and recognised. The counsellor pointed out that girls and women can be abusers too.

So...basically, it is a question that bothers me and makes me doubt myself sometimes. Then I look at my kids, and my grandkids, and think, "No...what happened wasn't normal."

Sorry, didn't mean to derail the thread.

LinM48 Has the hospital refused to speak to you about your mother, or is it that your father says that you don't have authority? As she is your mother, surely you have a right to contact them?

I consider myself very fortunate that I have close elation ships with both my children, which in turn means I can see lots of my grandchildren. However I have several friends who are estranged from their families and it seems so sad that whatever issues there are, cannot be resolved. I don't feel smug about my good fortune as I recognise that all these relationships take hard work and often different solutions have to be found to resolve issues.

I am estranged from my sister.Dont know what I've done except becominga gran.without going into detail she won't be a gran now.
In all honesty for years I did all the running keeping in touch even before the gran thing.shes my older sister.when she cut me out,I was a bit upset but I'd had enough of rolling over and sayin sorry when there was no reason for me to be.she was always super critical of me,husband and family.she done it to many people including her own daughter.i am happy now without her in my life.maybe we are both better without each other...

My sister starting having serious mental helth issues about 15 years ago. Not sure whether they could be labelled, but she became obsessed with married a man she worked with, even though he was long married and not interested. She was in a long marriage herself, but she was convinced he really loved her and stalked him. I heard DS ended up in prison for this reason. It's a scandel how many people with obvious mental health problems end up in prison.

Anyway, she got divorced and me and her adult childen haven't a clue where she lives. She turns up on odd occasions, leaving presents on the doorstep or sending birthday cards months before that persons birthday.

She stole money from my mother, who had Alzheimers, many years ago, but I put this down to her labile mental state.

I'm sad because she's my only sister and I would love to have a sisterly relationship. I don't hate her, because she must be lonely having her personality disorder.

I was estranged with my brother for two patches of about 10 years ...then we became very friendly . My mother died ...say no more , my brother then refused to reply to any attempts I made to be on speaking terms ..I even sent an email saying 'why won't you reply to my emails?' ...'I don't ever want to speak to you again.' He said
He didn't , a year ago I had a solicitor's letter ...he had died suddenly .he left me nothing ..he had no other relations apart from me and my daughters.
I am sad he wouldn't make up , but at least I know I really really tried .

I have not heard from my inlaws since my husband died 28 years ago. We never got on well anyway. They didn't like me because the are northerners and I come from the south.
I was estranged from my sister when our mother died because she somehow did me out of my share of the money although she was wealthy and I poor. However I started to communicate with her after five years when I realised that in spite of her lifestyle she was in an unhappy and abusive marriage.

I am estranged from my daughter and it grieves me, but I have, for the most part, come to accept the situation. For many years I didn't know why I, and all of my family, had been cut out of her life. I always maintained that there had been nothing said or done by me that might have triggered the estrangement and last year that belief was confirmed when I finally discovered what had caused it. Something had happened that caused my daughter tremendous emotional pain - to the point where I think she may even have suffered from PTSD. She was deeply troubled by this event and not thinking straight when she moved house and cut off contact. She actually phoned me and we had a normal chat before she dropped the bombshell that she was moving house and changing her number so that she couldn't be contacted directly by me or any member of my family (including her siblings).

I deeply regret never having met her youngest daughter and I miss my eldest two grandchildren who I was very close to when they were younger, but I am able (through a third party as I don't have an address) to send them gifts and cards, which I have always done.

My daughter isn't toxic; she made some bad decisions and didn't know how to deal with the fall-out so ran away to start over. She kept in touch with her dad and some members of his family so I hope that she's had support from them when she's needed it. I doubt if there will be any further contact with me although she recently visited my mother for fifteen minutes, completely out of the blue, after I'd mentioned in a card to my granddaughter that my mum is on 'end of life' care. I remain hopeful that I may see my grandchildren again one day, but I am realistic enough to know that the possibility is a slim one.

It seems when people you love break contact, they feel life would be better without you in it. It seems to be triggered by some event that they blame you for although there was nothing you could have done about it. All attempts are rebuffed and you can't help but go over the ifs and buts, could I have done this or that. The instigator just seems to want to punish the person they are alienating. There is no sense in any of it. In the end we just have to accept it. Daughters seem to take their fathers side in a divorce, even if he is the one that instigates the break up. Jealousy plays a big part with the sibling rivalry, the woman that can't be a gran, she could have shared her sisters joy and been part of their lives, yet preferred to be bitter. The man that wouldn't be part of his sisters life, despite having no other family, he could have been a much loved and valued uncle and brother yet he refused any contact and took his imagined grievances to the grave. I just hope you all have other people that make you happy.

1974 cookie, I am so pleased you have your much lived brother back in your lives. Together you will both be stronger and happier.

It is terrible to be estranged. My sister was never a sister in the real sense of the word,

She wasn't supportive when we were young and was always mean to both me and my brother. He and I have a good relationship and he doesn't care about being estranged from her.
However, In my heart I feel sad that things are as they are.
Last year I offered to pay, through my cousin, who was acting as a intermediary, for a counsellor to sit between us. The answer was a deafening silence.
We had a toxic parent. This is the root cause of our problem really.
My sister had admitted being jealous of me, but being younger than her I can't say I have ever been jealous of her. Sad isn't it, when I so wanted a sister.

It is so interesting reading this thread, lots of different points of view, but still respectful of each other.
Jem, I have to admit that I too have an issue with this word 'toxic' that gets banded about.
I was estranged from my dad for over 15 years, is choice not mine, he remarried after being married to my mum for 32years, and he had led a double life, which we were totally unaware of.
When he died, I had so many questions, I still do, they can never be answered now.
At his funeral, my brother and our families were completely air brushed from his life, someone came up to me and asked who we were, when I said I was dads' daughter, they said,"I didn't know he had children."
Did it hurt?
Certainly did.
So I know what it is like to be the estranged from two different ways.
I have moved on, and accepted that I can't change things, they are what they are, in my dads case, I was just his child who was caught up in something I had no control or understanding of, and I never will.
The past is just that, the past, it is now that matters, today.

I found the following of interest,

www.talentedladiesclub.com/all-help/10-giveaway-signs-toxic-person-handle/

My former mother-in-law cut herself off from us and our children when they were babies. I found out recently that she was reunited with my ex-husband just before she died and she said, "I really messed up my life, didn't I?" I don't think he could offer any words of comfort to her because she was right, she did. I would hate to look back from my deathbed and think that I had similarly screwed up in the one life that was given me. I know estrangements can be the result of serious incidents like abuse but others can be over trivial matters. I honestly don't even know why my ex mother-in-law chose to ignore us and our children! I do hope estrangements based on inconsequential happenings can be resolved so that grandparents and grandchildren can enjoy each others' company for as long as possible and not miss out...

I know that many people come from happily families where everyone gets on and is friendly and it must be difficult for you to understand the situation some of us find ourselves in. My older sister, as I have said before, is toxic. She is a wonderful friend but cannot cope with her family. She Has spoilt every family event she has ever come to and is no longer invited. Last time I tried to have lunch with her she screamed at me and there was another occasion where she launched a tirade of abuse at a wedding. On that occasion I had to go for counselling to help me recover.
I would love to think that we could be friends but the fact of the matter is that she is jealous and resentful ( for no reason) and cannot behave herself.
However, as I say to my mother. It doesn't matter if we don't go shopping together or visit each other. We still know that if there is an emergency we will be there for each other.

You are so right radicalnan. I went to greif councelling at my GP,S when my husband died as preferred not to take anti depressants.The councilor really annoyed me one day as I was just chatting to a male patient passing the time when he called me in. He smiled and insinuated that I was having a thing with the guy. I never went back again.I am fortunate that I get on very well with my Two sons and their families.I do not see a lot of them as one is in the forces and the other works long hours.I do not understand why people can be so spiteful to others, but I guess it takes all sorts. As for peoples political ideas all I can say it is no one elses business what you think and stupid to fall out over.

You are so right radicalnan. I went to greif councelling at my GP,S when my husband died as preferred not to take anti depressants.The councilor really annoyed me one day as I was just chatting to a male patient passing the time when he called me in. He smiled and insinuated that I was having a thing with the guy. I never went back again.I am fortunate that I get on very well with my Two sons and their families.I do not see a lot of them as one is in the forces and the other works long hours.I do not understand why people can be so spiteful to others, but I guess it takes all sorts. As for peoples political ideas all I can say it is no one elses business what you think and stupid to fall out over.

I know that someone people are difficult, but surely why would you bring your children into the argument, she could well be upset with you when she gets older over stupid things and because you said to her, don't play with people who upset you, she might well cut you out of her life. just saying. live and let live, life is too short, In our family there is no such estrangements because we all accept each other the way we are. maybe it would be better telling her that we have to work through problems in friendships/ relationships. people upset each other all the time, its what normal families do. I would love to hear from you mother in laws perspective.

I am estranged from my eldest son, his wife and my granddaughter. I arrived one day for a planned visit with my daughter in law, arms laden with gifts, but i was apparently late and needed to be taught a lesson. It was portrayed that i had turnes up uninvited to anyone they told the story to, but that wasn't the case. I spoke to her from outside the shop to ask her if she needed anything, but no mention of any problem. She was so rude it left me in tears. I spoke to my son about it and apparently that is my crime, i am supposed to take whatever rudeness she wants to dish out to me with no complaint. If i do not give her a full apology for MY bad behaviour i have apparently estranged myself from them. I am blocked everywhere, have been "ghosted" and "gaslighted" when i did nothing wrong, have never been rude, have always respected their lives and their space, and have helped them whenever i've been able to, often dropping whatever i had planned to help them instead. I am distraught, feel bereaved for the son i knew and loved, and i feel very badly wronged, but there is no possibility that i will be brow beaten by a full grown man and his wife whose only wish is to dominate someone who has never meant them any harm whatsoever.