Support for those estranged from family members. Moving on together,

100% agree with you Stella, I too have done the grovelling, always making the first move to either have it thrown in my face by abusive emails and being completely ignored.

I dont think sending cards, gifts, emails, letters or phone calls to estranged children helps, I think it makes them pull back even further, you cant buy love its a two way thing and if one party wont meet you half way theres no point, your just flogging a dead horse. Im done I cant do it anymore and I will not put myself in that position ever again.

Being a very recent member on this thread, I hadn't seen the original recommendation (by Yogagirl?) for the book Abandoned Parents: The Devils Dilemma. Thank you Smileless for mentioning it. I have just popped over to Amazon and bought it. I like the sound of it. Other things that I have read tell us that, even if we don't think we have done anything wrong, apologise and never stop trying everything to connect. I have too much dignity for that. I did try for some time of course. I repeatedly rang my son, he wouldn't take my calls. I repeatedly texted him, he never replied. I then sent him a long, heartfelt email saying that I missed him and that I didn't understand what had happened. I added that we used to be so close and mentioned various happy times. I added that I hoped to hear from him and sent him my love. I got no response. I was unconsolable for a long time, but I was done grovelling for his love. And a book or article telling me to keep contacting, sending gifts, writing and asking for contact, does not help or comfort me at all. I'm looking forward to reading the one recommended here.

In the hope of moving on from the quarrelling, can I ask others here think about these issues?

Dear Yogagirl "the grieving is frozen in time, there is no moving on, no healing"and BIG (((hugs))).

That should be ! after the word "Oops!" not @.

Oops@ Sorry, celeb! I meant to say, "DS' partner," not "DIL." But otherwise, the thoughts were the same.

yes rhinestone I found that interesting too!

I wondered if I dare hope as has bene 8 years for me.,

however being so low and scared in so much pain and not response from card husband sent after we had to call ambulance makes be doubt it very much,

It is interesting to note that the famous actresses who just passed away, Debbie Reynolds and Carrie Fisher were estranged for ten years. So even though it was a long time they did reconnect and had a wonderful relationship. Carrie was bipolar and an addict. That would make perfect sense as to why they were estranged. This could be the case for some of us.

Yogagirl that is sooo sad, and so very true, it was the same for me, one day I was cuddling my baby Grandaughter proud as punch and so happy and hopeful for lovely times ahead.

Then the letter arrived and it send shivers down my spine to remember.
Life was never same again, sooo many,tears, first words, first steps, everything taken away devastated doesn't cover it, and last 8 years 2 more babies born and zero contact all presents taken, all moneynvouchers etc nothing returned ever, but never acknowledged.

It is like we are dead as we all will be but in our case we have been totally cut off likewise onlynbrother, aunts uncles, godparents like we. NEver existed,

The pain never ends,

However as long as we have those that still love us life can still be good just different,

Smileless bereavement is final, but it is not intentional

Where marg is missing the obvious point is that someone who tragically dies unless it s suhicide does not choose this or deliberately sets out to hurt their parents.
That is thenvitsl obvious differntce which makes lost through estrangement so heart breaking,

For the record I have 3 Grandaughters and am perfectly entitled to name them if I choose there is nothing illegal In That, despite tragically me being unable to see them.
I choose not to especially since Katek trawling through old posts, but like ygagirl feel that is not the normal,

Likewise my daughter.

It is very tempting to say why would Marge be so interested?
Who are umestranfed from son or daughter marg or is it illegal to mention ? Do u just get off bymtrawling through others posts on here ?

I reiterate my previous comments I don't have anything to hide and say nothing i would not say to anyone's face, but scared someone like Marge is disturbed enough to keep such a vigil on my posts??

Below is a small section of my PM to Anya hope you don't mine my sharing Anya it's relevant to Marge's post:

What you say re the hope is true in my case, but watching my beloved GC grow, their first day at school, first nativity play, sports day, 3,4,5 & 6th birthdays can never be recaptured, along with the special bond I had with my GD. The pain is just indescribable! One day I was in their lives, the next out, like they had all been in a car crash & died, no more phone calls from my beloved GD; "nannie I love you" , nothing, just a black hole where they used to be! The grieving is frozen in time, there is no moving on, no healing, they are in my thoughts each & every day.

Well said yogagirl but Marge definitively has an axe to grind on my behalf strange woman ooops shenwill flag this up as another potential lawsuit??

Smileless It is a Mother's curse to always love her children!
and like you, I have only said the truth on here, so not bothered who reads it, but cannot imagine anyone searching for a Grandmothers forum and then navigating to our page! apart from GM in the same boat as us. So Marge you can stop your worrying on our behalf and get on with your own life.

Wendysue I don't have a d I l?

It would help if some people on here don't appear just to stir up,trouble.
Not that am incłjding you wendysue but your post brought out the worst in some people who must be short of occupation!

Marge your veiled comments are very strange, it is quite obvious you are referring to me I wonder what axe you have to grind?

I think youmcompletely missed the point smileless was making neither her or myself say anything on here we wouldn't be happy to say to anyone's face.

Some people ar direct and don't hide behind anonymous snipey comments.

Yes this is a public forum and we realise some mpeople like yourself lurk and take in other people's misfortunes with Out commenting, that's life.!

I worked for a solicitor for several years and you clearly don't have much idea of the law from your comments,

Hey ho whatever floats your boat.

I'm sorry that you're also an estranged parent marg. As you say bereavement is final and sadly for many estranged parents the estrangement is final too and there is no comfort in 'where there is breath there is hope'; certainly not in my case.

I'm glad your AC is seemingly happy and you can take some comfort from that. We moved 2 months ago as we lived just a few yards from our ES. The last time we saw him some distance away Mr. S. didn't realise it was our son. He's gained a lot of weight and looks terrible, it was difficult to see him looking the way he does now, he was such a handsome young man with a wonderfully engaging smile.

I regularly post on another site and one of the regular posters refers to the 'hope devil'; hoping for the 'phone call, text message, email, card or knock on the door that never comes. Some of the ladies on here read a book by Sharon Ann Wildey entitled 'Abandoned Parents: The Devil's Dilemma'; recommended to us by Yogagirl.

I remember Yogagirl warning us that although brilliantly written and well researched it's a difficult read as it offers no hope of reconciliation; she was spot on, it doesn't and for me it was just what I needed. It was only when I began to accept that our relationship was indeed over that I began to heal. A work in progress but that said Mr. S. and I have come a long way and looking back to when it all began, wonder how on earth we managed to get through it.

The book's title is curious and the inclusion of 'the devil's dilemma' only becomes clear in the last chapter. How does a loving parent emotionally detach from their own child? It is indeed a dilemma and in many ways our individual experiences are unique but for me it was the only way. Hope was quite literally tearing me apart.

There's a line in Harry Potter when he's sitting in front of a mirror where he'd previously seen himself with his parents, I can't quote it exactly but it goes something like this; 'don't spend your life wishing for things that can never be and forget to live'.

Wow! I never expected one simple exchange with celeb to get carried so far! But thanks to those of you who supported me! I was just trying to say, as some of you seem to realize, "Looks like things have improved with DS and DIL. Yay!"

Meanwhile, hope everyone had as lovely a New Year as possible!

Hi Smileless 2012, Thank you for your response and I do understand where you are coming from, I guess you feel that you have nothing to loose, I do get that, I really do. I was more concerned re: the legal implications on Granset admin if a reader should come by this public thread, see the derogatory and defamatory comments made and consider legal action against what some posters (actually one in particular) writes on here, often using identifiable names. I don't wish to be specific and would never screen shot the past but one poster in particular has made nasty comments about her brother's partner, her sister, her niece, her son's partner, her son's partner's mother, her son's partner's children, her friends, her next door neighbour, her estranged daughter, her son in law, her son in law's parents, various GPs, GPs reception staff to name just a few. Not only nasty comments but also divulging quite personal details. I am amazed Granset admin have not monitored these comments and removed them and this has been going on for some time, not only on this thread but the one before it and the one before that. I am also concerned that under the protection of children act, Gransnet admin are allowing the same poster to name her grandchildren. She will also name and shame her daughter from time to time to. I respect those of you who use this forum for support but use code rather than name and shame. The question of grieving an actual death in comparison to grieving an estranged relationship is one that I often see pop up on forums such as these. I actually think it is cruel beyind belief to suggest an estrangement bereavenent is worse than an actual death. Yes, one can grieve the "never coming back" of an actual death and work towards acceptance but they will never, ever, have the chance of a relationship again. Yes, grieving an estranged relationship is hard too, I know, I am an estranged parent myself but can take comfort from the fact that my child is seemingly happy, is most certainly living, is healthy and getting on with life. Where there is breath there is hope. Where there is death there is no hope.

Jammytoast ???your poor poor lady that is so awful, nowadays I think U would have received more understanding. How dare they not believe you?

Thanks you smileless as always you are factual of course it was taken out of context and quite why Anya chose to do that is a mystery.

As I said my Neibor's tragically lost their beloved son to cancer aged 20 4 years ago,
And the Dad said to me my pain was worse as our daughter chose to leave us and hurt us so badly, a living bereavement,

It seems the little gang of her and Katek and their followers have little else to do other than try and sabotage the thread.

They never win!?????

We had a wonderful New Year's Eve smileless 10 of us dancing and I even amnaged a few and some ???

When I was in my mid teens I reported my life to the police, I underwent 6 weeks of psychiatric assessment because back then it wasn't thought possible that what I was saying could be true. It was before the days of openness/understanding like now. At that point they then believed me and I was able to make a statement. My father was arrested but released without charge because he admitted nothing and it was my word against his. The police discharged me back to his care, I ran away - for good.

I hope you all managed to celebrate the New Year and that for all of us, this one will bring some peace.

Haven't been on for a couple of days but wanted to comment on the post from marge. I've been posting on this thread for a little over 4 years now. I found it just a couple of months into our estrangement and what a life line it has been.

Your point about anyone being able to find and read this thread has been made before; that perhaps our estranged AC may come across it, or friends of theirs and their partners. I'm sure we are all aware of the possibility and as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't worry me.

Our relationship with our ES has been been damaged beyond repair; there's no going back nowand as I've always been completely honest in all of my posts, it really doesn't bother me if I was ever identified. I've never posted anything on here that I wouldn't be prepared to say directly to our ES or his wife.

I remember the regular posters on this thread learning of the loss of your GC Anya and the sadness and sympathy that was expressed. It was a particularly unpleasant period and at its height, none of the regular posters here were aware of your tragic loss. To accuse Celeb of saying "that it was better (your) toddler GS had died as at least (you) had closure" is a misrepresentation of the discussion taking place at the time and has been taken out of context. We were at the time wondering if the loss of a child through estrangement was more difficult to come to terms with than losing a child through bereavement because an abandoning AC makes a conscious decision to cut their parents out of their lives.

Jammytoast wanted to mention separately that yes your disgusting father was a criminal and should be locked up it is a. Utter disgrace how hemtrested you to put it mildly. Have you considered reporting it to police? He should not be allowed to get away with it.

I can only echo yogagirl and wish you love and peace.
We
Anya if you thought I was unkind just reread your comments,
However for sad loss of your grandchild ??I am deeply sorry.

It is all about you Anya assuming the comment is just for you! Thanks cari and also for removing offensive post.

Maybe it would be helpful to remember that we are all on this thread going through as cari says sometimes unimaginable pain so unkind commenters never ever help.

Jammytoast profound apologies I am sorrymhad no idea what you had been through and the profoundly cruel way I have been treated as a loving mum does make me very vulnerable and sensitive. It was unspeakable cruel how your mum responded and my heart goes out to you, please forgive me for not remembering the hell you have gone thrOugh,

I tried my level best to be good mum and really loved my daughter, I would as most mums have laid down my life for her and I will never get over her betrayal of me. I can only hope for peace of mind and strength of character to not let it taint rest of my life.

I am so sorry jammytoast because you will carry those horrid memories with you.
To not have had a loving mum is a huge handicap in life, imstill talk to my dear mum r.i.pl when I visit her grave I update her, and she is in my mind every day, yet she died 32 years ago. She was a wonderful loving caring mum and for that I will always be thankful. We had no money or material things but love in abundance.

Thanks for explaining it all jammytoast and hope you continue to post if we can help you,

I am going be late now but had to respond.???

jammytoast I have always said where abuse takes places then there should be estrangement until both parties agree on mending the relationship. I would not want to see my mother either until she had therapy. I'm so sorry for your pain and torture you have been through. No one deserves abuse like that. Just know you alone did not cause your parents to behave like that. Your mother was irrresponsible and your father was a criminal in my opinion.
For many of us here there was no abuse and like myself, we don't understand why we were cut out of our children's lives. That is painful for us. Many of us feel that small petty reasons or spouses are what is causing the estrangement. I have great empathy for what you have been through but glad you made the correct choice and chose therapy and boundaries.

So sorry for your awful childhood Jammy I wish you now a life full of love & happiness. God Bless you xx

Anya As I have said in the past, I am deeply sorry for the loss of your dear grandchild & for parents