Adult children

trueblue22 ' worked her way to good mental health'. I'm glad your daughter got better but many people cannot work their way to good mental health. Chemical imbalances in the brain cannot be corrected by one's own efforts. Life is complex for a lot of people.

I agree with you completely mumofmadboys.

trueblue My mother was a Jewish refugee. She suffered severe mental ill health. She arrived in the UK aged 19, penniless, having had to leave her mother behind in Prague and not knowing where her brother was (in Brazil we later found out) She learned English, served in the Fire Service during WWII and married my father. From my teenage years and beyond she suffered extreme mental ill health, was on drugs for the rest of he life, saw countless psychiatrists and was given ECT. Nothing helped.

Mental ill health, like physical ill health, strikes anyone, anytime. I'm glad that your daughter is well but no-one 'works' their way to good mental health without assistance whether it is family support or other means. Without therapy I am pretty sure my daughter would not be alive now.

Mental ill health can continue throughout life. There are periods of remission but you never know when or why it may strike again.

trueblue, I have all respect for Holocaust survivors, but the ones we speak of and remember are the ones like your parents who had the resilience and personal attributes to survive the experience and make new lives for themselves afterwards but there were also many Holocaust survivors who struggled with mental and physical problems for the rest of their, often relatively short, lives. We do not hear about them, partly because most remained childless and most died in the 1950s.

This is exactly the same now. Some people are fortunate to be born with the attributes that make them rise to all that life throws at them; others are born without these attributes and find life so much more of a struggle and we should never denigrate those who struggle and seek help, whether that is through therapy or properly prescribed medication.

Hi Lucy in the sky....I think by what you have said that your daughter now feels ready and able to branch out. Neither of you will know what that will be like for her until she goes ahead. No matter where she is living she will always have your emotional support so personally I don't think that will be a problem. If you can put off or make clear to a lodger that they may have to vacate the room at relatively short notice..ie 4/6 weeks, because of your daughters health, then things should work out fine.
I feel it is important for our adult children to break out on their own and not be permanently mollycoddled by us oldies.
I hope this helps.
PS...preparing our loved ones for our death is always going to be an issue and I think we all need to do what we feel is right for our circumstances.
Kind regards to you x

Lucy have you considered selling your home after DD2 has moved out? After all you will all have moved on. There are other ways to help DD2. Perhaps she could have her share of her inheritance now as a deposit on a flat if that were all possible? This is just a thought, I would not expect you to share your financial situation here.

Could you enlist the help of DD1 in this situation. Have you talked over what your will with DD1. Would she object if you helped her sister more that her because she is in more need?

I wish you all the best with sorting out your situation, It can be difficult and quite complex. I know having a person with mental ill health in a family affects all the family members in different ways,

With the cost of housing being what it is now. It is not so unusual for children to stay at home longer than they did in the past. And many have help getting on the housing ladder.

I applaud that you wish your daughter to move on in her life rather than wrap her in cotton wool and 'baby' her. And I applaud DD2 who is doing her best to get on with her life despite her problems.

Best wishes to you and your family

Dear Lucy in the sky,

I think it is the right action that your daughter is thinking of moving out and living with a peer group of working people. See this pdf for the life stages and you will see, on page 2, it is no 5. It details the emotional tasks to accomplish.

wps.ablongman.com/wps/media/objects/4915/5033208/Fourth_ed.pdf

As your daughter has a therapist I presume that she is paying the person and so this leaves her less money for rent. I think you have to accept this. You might ask your daughter how you can help her in this transition and if her therapist has made any suggestions that might help. It may be helpful to say how proud you feel of your daughter to want to take this positive step. As others have said I think it would not be a good idea to put any pressure on her via her room as this will be a key part of her security and emotional strength, along with your support.

Perhaps, if you are living on a retirement income, you should go out to part time work. You could seek your daughters help in developing an upto date CV and helping you describe your skills etc. This might lead to a more mutually supportive relationship. I am saying this in part because in order for your daughter to successfully move out her status has to change which means that you and she must relate in a more mature adult way which recognises her new skills and involves different rules including those of self disclosure. (here we are looking at the difference between first order and second order change) Life transitions are second order change.
(second order change P4. www.mftlicense.com/pdf/sg_chpt4.pdf and in this slide presentation: www.slideshare.net/abpascual/the-family-life-cycle)

Do not mention dying again. You have done that. She knows your intentions and presumably where to find papers etc. I would suggest now is the time for living and looking forward. If you decide not to look for a job. Try a new hobby or class that you can discuss with your daughter.

good luck!

See above. Checked the link and the slide share would not come up. Hope this one lets it come up.

The Family Life Cycle by abpascual 47875 views - SlideShare
www.slideshare.net/abpascual/the-family-life-cycle
31 Jul 2010 - THE FAMILY LIFE CYCLE<br />Aileen B. Pascual, MD, DPAFP<br />July 17, 2010<br /> ... The Unattached Young Adult<br />Problems encountered<br />Medical<br />Emotional<br />Social<br /> ... Newly Married Couple<br />Joining of families through marriage<br />Emotional Process of Transition

Hi Lucy, I hope that all goes well for you and your daughter, mental health issues are so very difficult, and not helped by others misunderstanding of how difficult and complex these issues can be to deal with, I am sure you have already had plenty of great suggestions on here, please keep us in touch with how this progresses for you and your daughter, thinking of you and wishing you both the very best.

I agree totally, Cotswoldgran. Good luck Lucy, you wanted advice and helpful opinions not inter-post squabbling! Hope things work out.

Have I missed your helpful advice Smithy?

chris1603 thank you very much for your good wishes - much appreciated.

We did talk about my selling up my flat and moving somewhere cheaper last year but financially it will not work because if I was to give DD2 her inheritance now I would feel duty bound to give the same money to DD1.

I have always tried to treat them the same even though their circumstances are different. My MIL gave far more to her elder son than she ever did to my ExH, saying that he had a good job so didn't need help! Caused the most dreadful resentment and I do not wish that for my children. DD2 doesn't expect or ask for help either, except in the emotional sense.

DD1 and DD2 are not close. She will not help her sister in any way :-(

You are right in that we should not mollycoddle our children and I am aware I have been guilty of that in the past. Mainly to make up for the way DD2 was treated by ExH when she was a child and he was a house husband when made redundant (twice) while I worked full time. Damage was done even though I gave up F/T work when she was 8 years old.

Dear EmilyHarburn

Thank you for your suggestions.

I have in the past paid for the therapist but DD2 has been able to afford this cost herself for some time. i have offered to pay again if it helps when she has to pay a higher rental than she does currently with me. She knows that the offer is there should she need it.

DD2 is well aware of how proud I am of her and her wish to become more independent. She knows I am always at the other end of an email (My deafness precludes talking on the phone easily)

Perhaps, if you are living on a retirement income, you should go out to part time work.

Not sure why you suggest this? I am almost 68 years old and although I live on a retirement income I can just manage (especially while DD2 contributes to expenses) Also I move between two countries due to my partner being French so I cannot commit myself to a job in one place. Cannot imagine who would give a deaf woman in her late 60s a part time job!

I don't intend to mention my dying again (although DD2 may bring it up herself as she has done in the past). I feel it was the right thing to do for us rather than ignore what will happen some time in the (distant I hope!) future and we can now look ahead.

Hi maddieb

I agree with what you say - I am seeing my prospective lodger on Tuesday and will be honest wth her about the situation i. e. that the room may not be available for quite some time, but I don't think she is in a great hurry to move.

My priority is that DD2 finds somewhere she can call home for the future and feel comfortable and secure there. I am not actively helping her to look as she doesn't want me to (a good thing really as it is indicative of her independence) but has asked my advice.

Thankyou x

Thank you for your kindness and interest Cotswoldgran

I will post updates and let you know how things progress.

Thank you Smithy

There have been some helpful comments and I feel clearer in what I need to do, which was why I posted in the first place

Hello lucyinthesky Like some others who have posted, I do not think you should feel bad about having tried to prepare your daughter for a future without you some day. This is sensible thinking - and which is at the root of most supported housing provision for people assessed to be vulnerable.In many cases it is a statutory duty for local authorities (housing and social services, which should work together) to provide this, depending on the level of need. Any assessment from the mental health team should look at how people manage (or not) at their worst, not just on a good day.

Your daughter has done brilliantly to get and keep the job she has in an area where there is so much competition. However, she has a right to want to live independently of you, whatever her health problems are - and you to want this for her.
You could both benefit from getting some housing advice/assistance from your local council housing advice centre. There are in many areas (affordable, rented) independent living flats designed especially for young/youngish! people with mental health problems who can work but still need a bit of support from time to time. AND where, if things go pear shaped, they do not become homeless, as their rent can still be covered by housing benefit.Provision varies - and it may not be available immediately. Also,you will need letters of support at some point from doctors etc and the mental health team.
I have friends whose adult daughter is now in this situation, and though it took time and a lot of courage for her to leave the parental home, she did -and it is working out really well (as is her career and her friendships). Mum and Dad live within half an hour's journey so it is easy to maintain contact, and they do not have to worry nearly so much now about how things will be for her when they are no longer around. Take care, and hope things work out for you both x.

lucy good luck with the prospective lodger, and it's certainly helpful if she's in no particular hurry to move in. Wishing you and your DD many good times ahead.

Thanks Wilma for the flowers!

Hi Cassandra264 DD2 has done brilliantly so far, I agree.

Thanks for your suggestion but I'm not sure that she would qualify for any help from our local council even if she's prepared to ask for it. She was signed off by the mental health department 2 years ago so the council wouldn't see her as needing support. Only the worst and most urgent cases get assistance from our London borough.

I have checked out 'affordable' housing (ie housing associations) - she would need to be earning far more than she currently does to afford these homes in London, where she would need to earn a minimum of £40K and in most cases far more to pay for the mortgage, rent and service charges.

As with many of her 20 and 30 something generation she will have to rent somewhere (and by doing so pay someone else's mortgage for them!)

Dear lucyinthesky I have followed this thread with interest and feel you have been given a lot of thoughtful and kindly meant advice. I am not going to add to it, but I do want to share some positives as there are overlaps of experience for me. I have a son who is in his late twenties. He suffers from mental health issues (also has a gay father who left us to 'come out' when he was 12) and he has weekly therapist sessions.

I just wanted to say that my son took the decision to live independently over a year ago. This meant moving him to London. He actually shares a flat with a an old school friend, but they are by no means in each other's pockets. His friend often works away. At present my son is not in work, but is working very hard to positively manage his difficulties.

I probably don't need to tell you the angst involved in watching him 'fly the nest' . However, he knows I am just a phone call away and an hour's drive away. He is doing well and it has been very good for his self-esteem that he is living much more independently. I have gradually learned to relax more / fret less. Even though I was dreading it and expecting him to need to be rescued, he is doing alright. It hasn't all been plain sailing and there have been a couple of times when it has benefited him to come home for a long weekend - mainly so I can ensure he is eating right, but the whole experience has been very good for me too.

And for the record - you don't seem to be mollycoddling to me. Rather, your daughter is blessed to have such a wonderful support. Take care and PM if you want to - happy to chat further.

A word of caution re prolonged therapy, it can be counter productive. It can maintain a dependency and validate the thinking that one still needs support. The therapist/psychologist's goal is to become redundant as they have worked through your issues, challenged your thinking and given you sufficient tools to cope alone.

Luchinthesky, you are doing your best in difficult circumstances. You have had so much emotionally to cope with, as your daughters have, you must have had a hard time when your husband left as he did. You say both your daughters are close and you have her best interests at heart and it is a worry most of us don't have. Will she cope without me? You are doing the best you can, know you would never shut the door on her if it didn't work out. I definately would not have a lodger though, if I could not afford the home I have I would downsize to something more manageable, so that her room is Always there for her. Only you know what would work though.

Katek I agree completely about long term therapy but I can't influence DD2's decision to continue. But maybe when she does move out and it won't be so easy to get back to see her so regularly this might change.

My bipolar French partner has seen his psychiatrist weekly for over 10 years (!) and admits that he is a crutch who also serves as a father figure. I wish he didn't feel the need to see him.

Imperfect27 Thank you for your post. It is great news about your son and I hope he finds work soon.

My instinct says that once DD2 has found a place and people she feels comfortable to share with, it will be a good thing for her self confidence and esteem.

Luckylegs9 Unfortunately if I downsize it would end up being a one bed flat from the two bed one I currently have so there would be no room for DD2 should she need it in an emergency.

And the amount of money released from downsizing wouldn't be enough for me to help her as well as her sister as well as have a small nest egg myself for the future.

All I feel I can do atm is to encourage DD2 to keep looking for somewhere to live independently without appearing to nag her (but not because I have a possible lodger in mind, either)