Poppy’s!!

Oh Witzend - live and let live. My daughter has a Master’s and I still have to correct her occasionally- I think predictive spelling on phones and tablets is the cause .

I saw Poppy's, bristled, ready to come in with Poppy's what? then realised it was Pedant's Corner.

Having a Master's degree does not excuse poor spelling.

It's not so much the inability to make plurals of words ending i Y so much as the inability to understand the difference between the 's' used to denote a plural and the 'apostrophe s' used to denote possession.

I'm afraid I put it down to the era of teaching English when anything went so long as the reader could 'make meaning' from what was written and grammar was a dirty word.

Not that insistence on learning 'grammar' for the past decade has made much difference because the 'grammar' curriculum which was brought in was highly technical and unnecessarily complex 😡

I'm afraid I put it down to the era of teaching English when anything went so long as the reader could 'make meaning' from what was written and grammar was a dirty word.

Child-centred education was a result of the Plowden Report. Correcting spelling and grammar in red ink daunted a child's imagination and could give them anxiety. Apparently.

Having a Master's degree does not excuse poor spelling.
I can remember when the ethos changed; a member of my family has a Master's (not in English) but is not great at spelling. He was at primary school in the 1960s.

Now autocorrect is to blame in many cases. It has some strange ideas.

I remember being taught possessive apostrophes and plurals very clearly. 2nd year juniors in the 1950s. Several examples, clearly explained and demonstrated on the blackboard, then some examples to copy and complete, then an exercise from a text book. Stayed with me for life.
My parents were always insistent on correct grammar and spelling, yet both had left board schools at 14. I have a large collection of postcards from pre-WW1 belonging to my grandmother, mainly from her large family, all educated at the local village school. Yet to find a spelling mistake in the messages.
As a primary teacher I do remember the spelling and grammar don't matter in the seventies and eighties; it is all about communication. Not in my classroom.

crazyH

Oh Witzend - live and let live. My daughter has a Master’s and I still have to correct her occasionally- I think predictive spelling on phones and tablets is the cause .

My dd1 has a Masters, too, and I’m pleased to say she once had a mark deducted from one of her MA essays, because of a ‘dangling participle’. Her SPAG was generally immaculate but she had to ask me what that was.

This was in around 2000 though - I wouldn’t care to have to guarantee that the same standards still apply in that Russell Group university. .

I was in Secondary school in 70s. In my school we were not once taught how to pluralise words ending in 'y', or how to correctly position the apostrophe to denote possession . In fact we were taught no grammar at all in our English lessons, as far as I recall.
Looking back, I actually feel quite angry about that, though I have managed to fill in a lot of the gaps myself since then.
Most subjects were taught very well, so I don't understand why English was so abysmal.

Yes! We have no banana’s 😆

Oreo

Yes! We have no banana’s 😆

Not as weird as boxe's though!

Foxie’s in boxe’s ?

Oldnproud

I was in Secondary school in 70s. In my school we were not once taught how to pluralise words ending in 'y', or how to correctly position the apostrophe to denote possession . In fact we were taught no grammar at all in our English lessons, as far as I recall.
Looking back, I actually feel quite angry about that, though I have managed to fill in a lot of the gaps myself since then.
Most subjects were taught very well, so I don't understand why English was so abysmal.

Hmm yes, I too was at school at this time and though English was taught well from a creative point of view, we also did not receive grammar lessons as such and our school never ever taught us any Shakespeare, I always thought that was remiss, love it or hate it, most people have a good knowledge of it and I did in my late youth, feel a little left behind by that. I wonder Oldnproud if it was a modern 'Thing' or new way of thinking, something like expecting us to express ourselves without the need for grammar ? They had a lot of strange ideas in the 70's !!!

Oreo

Foxie’s in boxe’s ?

Actually, it was more likely to have been lunche's in boxe's, as I saw it on a cafe sign.

eazybee

I saw Poppy's, bristled, ready to come in with Poppy's what? then realised it was Pedant's Corner.

Having a Master's degree does not excuse poor spelling.

Hear, hear

Oldnproud

I was in Secondary school in 70s. In my school we were not once taught how to pluralise words ending in 'y', or how to correctly position the apostrophe to denote possession . In fact we were taught no grammar at all in our English lessons, as far as I recall.
Looking back, I actually feel quite angry about that, though I have managed to fill in a lot of the gaps myself since then.
Most subjects were taught very well, so I don't understand why English was so abysmal.

Weren’t you taught that at PRIMARY school?

MawsRosie

Oldnproud

I was in Secondary school in 70s. In my school we were not once taught how to pluralise words ending in 'y', or how to correctly position the apostrophe to denote possession . In fact we were taught no grammar at all in our English lessons, as far as I recall.
Looking back, I actually feel quite angry about that, though I have managed to fill in a lot of the gaps myself since then.
Most subjects were taught very well, so I don't understand why English was so abysmal.

Weren’t you taught that at PRIMARY school?

No. Primary covered verbs, adjectives and (if I recall correctly) adverbs. Nothing beyond that.

Oldnproud

I was in Secondary school in 70s. In my school we were not once taught how to pluralise words ending in 'y', or how to correctly position the apostrophe to denote possession . In fact we were taught no grammar at all in our English lessons, as far as I recall.
Looking back, I actually feel quite angry about that, though I have managed to fill in a lot of the gaps myself since then.
Most subjects were taught very well, so I don't understand why English was so abysmal.

These basics should have been taught at primary school but it sounds as if you were part of the guinea pig generation.

However, even though I have 'A' level English, some of the new terms being used now are like a foreign language to me!

MawsRosie

eazybee

I saw Poppy's, bristled, ready to come in with Poppy's what? then realised it was Pedant's Corner.

Having a Master's degree does not excuse poor spelling.

Hear, hear

But the guinea pig generation were never corrected so knew no better.

"NEVER begin a sentence with But or And, Jenni!"

was never corrected

No. Primary covered verbs, adjectives and (if I recall correctly) adverbs. Nothing beyond that.

What, no nouns, pronouns and prepositions? 🤨

At grammar school in the '60s we had English Language and English Literature lessons. In Language we were taught abbreviations, use of the apostrophe, clauses, precis, the difference between words like stationary/stationery, advice/advise, disinterest/uninterest.. etc. In effect, how to use words precisely.
In Literature we read whole 'classic' books and Shakespeare plays, which I think gave us a real feel for the proper use of language.

I don't think children get that sort of experience these days...

JenniRen

MawsRosie

eazybee

I saw Poppy's, bristled, ready to come in with Poppy's what? then realised it was Pedant's Corner.

Having a Master's degree does not excuse poor spelling.

Hear, hear

But the guinea pig generation were never corrected so knew no better.

"NEVER begin a sentence with But or And, Jenni!"

Oh, I was taught that type of 'rule' in first year juniors, but I have decided over the years that many such rules are ridiculous, and I actively ignored them in anything other than very formal writing, and use them freely the rest of the time, just as I do in speech. I've become a language rebel over the years. 😁

Never split an infinitive!

MaizieD

^No. Primary covered verbs, adjectives and (if I recall correctly) adverbs. Nothing beyond that.^

What, no nouns, pronouns and prepositions? 🤨

At grammar school in the '60s we had English Language and English Literature lessons. In Language we were taught abbreviations, use of the apostrophe, clauses, precis, the difference between words like stationary/stationery, advice/advise, disinterest/uninterest.. etc. In effect, how to use words precisely.
In Literature we read whole 'classic' books and Shakespeare plays, which I think gave us a real feel for the proper use of language.

I don't think children get that sort of experience these days...

Ah, nouns yes, but I have no recollection of being taught pronouns or prepositions.

JenniRen

Never split an infinitive!

I take my lead from Star Treck, and happily split infinitives - to boldly go ... .

Me too!