Vertical Drinking

MawsRosie 😹😹😹

Definitely a case of taking the urine

Not just Merton Council but also Liverpool and Wolverhampton. It is local councils and you have to apply to your local council to be granted a licence to sell alchoholic. Those who already have a licence will be able to continue as usual but anyone applying for a new licence won’t get one unless vertical drinking is disallowed. It’s not about having to order on an app but having someone take your order and bring it to your table.

You also have to apply to the council if you want a TENS (Late Night Extension) for which you are allowed a limited number a year. Certainly councils may decide not to grant one unless everyone is seated which will apply to all establishments, and some may insist food has to be served as well.

So nothing to do with the government but local Councils individual decisions. So Nigel Farage will still be able to vertically drink in established boozers although landlords are still allowed to refuse to serve people at their own discretion.

Horizontal drinking?????……….risk of spilling and of choking

LemonJam

This is a misleading News and Politics thread as the OP provides incorrect information ie "so why cant the government leave well alone".

Posters have picked up on this and highlighted the inaccurate information in a straight forward way.

I do beg your pardon lemon tree, I actually meant the local government.
Didn’t RR recently put up business taxes on the pub industry.
Yes I probably should have sat on my behind this morning & followed all the news outlets but of course I’ve got more pressing things to do.

"In a nutshell, this about street drinking and the nuisance that can cause. If you have lived or worked in any major city or town you will probably have encountered it."

Does that mean vertical street drinking and therefore mean that people are allowed to sit on a bench or a rug and get kaylied en plein air?

Serious question, although I may be getting confused.

Are there not more important things for Councils to concern themselves with?

I must be missing something vital here.

We already have legislation dealing with being drunk and disorderly in a public space

Information about it here:

policing.uk/know-your-rights/is-it-illegal-to-drink-in-public-uk

This is the company which has published this information

www.hceo.news/about-hceo

I cannot see how this proposal can actually be particularly workable. It's questionable as to how it would be enforced beyond the limit of the police powers which already exist

Graphite says : In a nutshell, this about street drinking and the nuisance that can cause. If you have lived or worked in any major city or town you will probably have encountered it.

From the website linked:

Public Space Protection Orders The Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act 2014 (ASBCPA 2014) replaced earlier local alcohol restriction powers with Public Space Protection Orders (PSPOs). A local council may make a PSPO for a defined geographic area if it is satisfied that activities carried on in that area have had, or are likely to have, a detrimental effect on the quality of life of those in the locality, and the activities are of a persistent or continuing nature such that they are unreasonable.

(There is more)

Doesn't this already cover the problem Councils are looking to reduce/eliminate?

This story looks to me like 'silly season' reporting.

And while we're on the subject of government bashing, I think that the No. 10 response is ridiculous. The story really isn't worth its notice.

Graphite

In a nutshell, this about street drinking and the nuisance that can cause. If you have lived or worked in any major city or town you will probably have encountered it.

Westminster Council say:

[Our policy] on how licensed premises should operate and informs our decision on whether to issue a licence and on what conditions.

Our aim is to promote the four licensing objectives set out in the Licensing Act 2003:

• prevention of crime and disorder
• public safety
• prevention of public nuisance
• protection of children from harm

The policy seeks to balance the interests of business and residents to make sure that Westminster continues to offer a wide choice of high quality and well managed entertainment and cultural venues within an environment that is safe and attractive to residents, business and visitors.

What's wrong with that as an aim?

Actually I meant standing up indoors & going to the bar for a drink in a city/ town pub.
I lived ten yards from a pub, we never had a problem with outside drinking until the indoor smoking ban came into force & drove everyone outside.

You cannot legally sell alchohol without a licence. Only the council can grant this and usually consult with the local police. If your licence says no vertical drinking and you ignore it you can receive a hefty fine and even have your licence removed., so it is enforceable.

How is it monitored, Avalon?

Sunshinegirls

It"s the same old same old on the N and P threads the ones who seem to know every detail of everything that's why imop hardly any new posters go onto argue the toss. Yet I see lots of new posters on other threads.

... the ones who seem to know every detail of everything...

I don't understand why that should be a problem. I'm well aware that there are those on certain N&P threads who have more detailed info - or even direct experience - on specific matters, than I do. But if we are debating a topic that is 'current', it's not difficult to get the full picture yourself if necessary - by simply checking the media (for example), or using AI as a research tool.

Your opinion, and that of the new posters, is as valid as anyone else's, it has though to be based on facts, surely?

N&P threads, by their very nature, will sometimes be controversial, and yes, that can feel uncomfortable, but I don't think the answer is to expect those with detailed knowledge of whatever the issue is - to just keep quiet when they see false information being cited.

JenniRen

"In a nutshell, this about street drinking and the nuisance that can cause. If you have lived or worked in any major city or town you will probably have encountered it."

Does that mean vertical street drinking and therefore mean that people are allowed to sit on a bench or a rug and get kaylied en plein air?

Serious question, although I may be getting confused.

I actually meant indoor drinking & not being able to go to the bar.
But yes outdoor drinking can be a real nightmare, especially if it’s near where people live.

I agree to a certain extent. Having a drink outside a pub is just what people in busy city and town pubs do. Possibly a throwback to when more people smoked, even before smoking was banned inside pubs.

Having worked in the city of London for decades it was just what people (including me) did. The inside of the pub was often too small for the number of people who wanted to drink there after work. That said, there were few residents to be disturbed and few tourists either or children.

I guess this latest is about when things become a bit loud but not necessarily enough to be considered seriously anti-social or warrant a PSPO. People in numbers just talking make a noise. Same as any coffee shop or theatre interval.

I am wondering if at least some of this could be to do with what were formerly commercial premises in Westminster being converted to residential and the problems that might arise from that. Similar to when people buy a house next to a church and then complain about the bell ringers.

I don’t know that sitting down to drink makes people less noisy than people standing up to drink.

LemonJam

If the OP came on to 'argue the toss' - posters have responded.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

‘Argue the toss’ you mean like you do most days on N & P if no one agrees with your beloved Labour Party 🙄

JenniRen

Are there not more important things for Councils to concern themselves with?

I must be missing something vital here.

But like “recollections”
opinions may vary, on what’s important for Councils to concern themselves with.

What a nasty little post MT62. Lemonjam provides thoughtful, considered, well informed and accurate posts. What on earth about that provoked such a reaction?

Westminster City Council is controlled by the Conservative Party.

MaizieD

How is it monitored, Avalon?

Not sure MaisieD but if the police turn up or someone reports you to the licensing authority there is an enormous risk you will lose your licence which no landlord wants as you are then effectively closed.