He has done it! The toolmakers son has resigned!

MaizieD

What a horrible thread title. Starmer's detractors vindictive to the last.

Hear, hear. How very catty & rude some people are! I thought that sort of talk was a thing of the past. Perhaps its a generational thing. Shocking & mean.

MayBee70

—Keir has a great working relationship with Carney, Macron, Schulz and Zelensky...relationships that he has built up over time.

But none of that will matter at all to his detractors. In fact, to the 'two-tier-Keir' and 'Starmer is a W**ker' brigade, it will positively work against him.

RSALLAN2002

Who says national debt is 3 times gdp? Fake.

Whatever the ;national debt' might be most people who hold it do not want to have it repaid to them unless they actually ask for it back.

I've often asked on the Premium Bond thread who would be happy if the government suddenly cancelled their bonds and sent them a cheque for what they had paid for them? No takers... they all wanted to hold on to their Premium Bonds.

Yet Premium Bonds comprise some £135 billion of the national debt...

(about £4 billion is paid out in prizes each year)

It isn't really about sources is it, it is about differing views. If you take Southport for example, I think his approach was overly authoritarian, I think many of the people in the riots were also terribly advised in terms of pleading guilty but that is a different matter. I think the release of info about the perpetrator was handled badly. I would actually say the handling of the aftermath of Southport was the start of the end for Starmer, but again there are complex reasons underlying that which arent really Starmers fault. These are a range of views on the matter, and I came to them under my own free will.
I think additionally the decision with regard to Mandelson was horrific, and actually was more of the 'jobs for the boys' that we saw under the tories. None of these are slogans they are differing views on Starmer.
I don't think he was a particularly decent man, I don't think he was a particularly terrible man, and what's more I actually want the media to be a part of those holding the government ( of whatever flavour) to account. Truss, Johnson, all had various nicknames in the media and on social media, the sane applies to labour. There is something in the current outrage culture that leads to the 'targeting' of the PM but all parties are subject to this. I feel a little sympathy for Starmer in that I think he took the role at a time when trust in politicians was at an all time low ( with very good reason) and that wasn't his fault but rather timing.

Oreo

CatsWhiskas

"Being useless" is your opinion. It's not a statement of fact.

If he had been really useful as PM he wouldn’t have to had to resign.

That's a non sequitur.

You have given your opinion without justification, not stated a fact.

Thanks Doodledog Casdon and others for maintaining a calm, accurate reflective approach.
I’m losing the will to participate when so many comments are totally inaccurate
Of course it’s possible to empathise with Thatcher’s distress on being forced out. I loathed he politics but she was a human being, doing what she believed was right for the country

I reluctantly joined the Starmer isn’t leading the party well, he needs to go group. That didn’t stop me acknowledging his resignation speech as a true reflection of his views. Or from recognising a decent man who’d done what he believed to be right for his country
Tribalism can be destructive

I agree Maybee70 that KS has had a good working relationship with Macron. The French President has been quite glowing in his praise of KS, citing his commitment to supporting Ukraine. As well as the usual spiel about restoring relations between the UK and Europe etc.

Shabti100

But he himself said his father is a tool maker! How is the title anything but the truth?

Prime ministers are not defined by their father’s occupations, are they?
It would be like a version of Happy Families if they defined us all like that, imagine being 80 and being called Mrs X, the sewage workers daughter. I’m not having a go at sewage workers, before anybody says I am.

Galaxy

People holding critical views of Starmer are no more led by the media than those who support him. I am sorry but it is that perspective that will finish Burnham as well.

Can you back that up at all?

It is perfectly possible to look at what he has achieved, and base a judgement on that - very different from chanting slogans, IMO. But I'll be interested to see your sources anyway.

Cossy

foxie48

He didn't really have any other option, did he? I just feel very sad that British politics has become so vile and divisive. No wonder we struggle to get decent people to stand for parliament but just like we get the police we deserve, we also get the politicians we deserve!

👏👏👏👏👏👏

Absolutely this so very sad to read this OP

But he himself said his father is a tool maker! How is the title anything but the truth?

People holding critical views of Starmer are no more led by the media than those who support him. I am sorry but it is that perspective that will finish Burnham as well.

Who says national debt is 3 times gdp? Fake.

Mark Carney on Starmer; "It has been a privilege to work alongside Sir Keir Starmer as he has led international efforts to support Ukraine through the Coalition of the Willing, strengthen NATO, improve Arctic cooperation, and deepen the historic partnership between Canada and the United Kingdom.
Throughout, and in the face of exceptional challenges, Keir has acted with principle, determination, and collaboration. The world is safer and allies are more united because of his efforts.
Keir, thank you for your lifetime of public service. I am grateful for your friendship, and I wish you all the best as you concentrate on your "most important job.”
—Keir has a great working relationship with Carney, Macron, Schulz and Zelensky...relationships that he has built up over time. This at a time when international unity is paramount . Imo

Casdon

Oreo

It seems the best that can be said for Starmer is that he ‘kept us out of a war’. That can be said about the rest of Europe’s and the world’s leaders too and it was never going to be an option for us either.
Nobody cared about the finer feelings of other failed PM’s so why all the wailing and gnashing of teeth for him? Because he ‘seems like a nice guy’? He didn’t go to Eton? He’s let the country, that’s us btw down by being a useless PM, I wasn’t keen on him to start with, had many doubts about him which have come to pass.

That’s not true Oreo, there was a lot of sympathy for Rishi Sunak across the political spectrum on here, and going back, also for Teresa May. I think a lot of us respect people who do their best for the country, whether we agree with their political views or not.

Agreed, Casdon. I really don't respect tribalism, and can see the good in those who do their best, whether I agree with their views or not. I respect kindness and decency - not in the 'be kind' way that means 'don't speak up', but in the old meaning of doing no deliberate harm.

I don't think KS let the country down at all. He went wrong by not being able to handle the spiteful attacks on him and his cabinet (mainly the women) from the day he took office. He chose to rise above it all, and ignore them, but they must have hurt. Ignoring them made things worse, though, and he failed badly to get across the good things for which he was responsible. They were drowned out by the howls of protest about spectacles and tickets and spurious 'two-tier' slurs.

Whether AB will be able to do better with all of that, who knows? The soundbites have already started, and he's not in office yet - have 'The Messiah', or 'Birkenstock Boy' been used on here yet? It's a matter of time, if not.

The jibes are created and sponsored by people with more money than many countries, and are fed to people who prefer not to (or are not able to) look behind them, so they repeat them uncritically. Look at the 'two-tier Kier' slur. It compared the speed with which rioters (largely white) were tried with the length of time the men (both brown) who resisted arrest at Manchester Airport, and ignored the fact that the fast-tracked rioters were dealt with quickly because they pleaded guilty, and the Airport men did not, so a case had to be made against them, and it was not a clear or straightforward case - the jury could not reach a verdict. But never mind any of that - headlines and SM told people that KS had a 'two tier' approach to justice - utter nonsense when you look at his record - and joined in the chorus.

'Rachel from Accounts' is another one. Comparing the Chancellor with a sitcom character is lowbrow at best, and misogynist at worst, but in any case is entirely uncritical. Reeves has the highest financial position in the land, but was compared with a low-status office worker in a way that showed absolutely nothing about the reasons the jibers disagreed with either her approach to economics or her policies - assuming they had any.

Then there is Angela Rayner. Comments about her were disgraceful (and even more misogynistic than those against Reeves), and she was hounded from office for doing far less than the likes of Nadhim Zahawi.

I could go on.

I haven't 'wailed' or 'gnashed my teeth' about Starmer's resignation. I think he was right to stand down, but I was saddened to see a man who had obviously (to my mind) wanted to do the best for the UK that he could have to resign in such a public manner, and admit that he was doing so because his colleagues felt he wasn't up to the job. That can't have been easy.

Gutted

Casdon

I think a lot of us respect people who do their best for the country, whether we agree with their political views or not.

Yes!

As a left-leaning voter I felt sympathy for Margaret Thatcher (going back in time) whose ideology I did not agree with, in that moment when she was being driven away after having been unseated, because I recognised that she had the strength of character which made her believe completely in what she was doing, and not care about whether she was or wasn't popular.

It really is possible to respect an individual whose political outlook doesn't chime with your own.

Which, really, makes it pointless to attempt to debate with those who simply dismiss Starmer as "useless" (or worse sometimes)... and usually do it without evidence of their 'uselessness' too.

Sorry Casdon and others.
Went away without posting.
I see that you have already corrected the school and father nonsense.

CatsWhiskas

"Being useless" is your opinion. It's not a statement of fact.

If he had been really useful as PM he wouldn’t have to had to resign.

LizzieDrip

^Burnham has done a good job for Greater Manchester^

OMG!
He isn’t even the PM; he’s the MP for Makerfield and I’m already sick to death of hearing “he’s great a great job for Greater Manchester”!!!

That’s because he has, and is well thought of there and has more passion for the Labour Party than KS.

Typo “… done a great job …”

Burnham has done a good job for Greater Manchester

OMG!
He isn’t even the PM; he’s the MP for Makerfield and I’m already sick to death of hearing “he’s great a great job for Greater Manchester”!!!

I don’t think SKS is a particularly good man. Hé did some dreadful things and for me, failed utterly re Israel. AB had better speak up as I think the whole county is angry about that issue above all.

I haven’t read the thread,it has way to nasty a title,says a lot about Sago,just horrible.

Sorry post continued

Andy Burnham aka The Messiah.Is no great shakes either. Didn't do a great deal as the Mayor of Greater Manchester. Believe me. Besides promote himself.

All a bit worrying really.