Preston Davey, another baby P.

I mean they won't serve their full sentences in the way huntley didn't serve his full sentence.

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rarelymary, did you read my post about the small boy in care who elected to choose adoption by a lesbian couple, as he had suffered at the hands of men in his birth family?

Iam64

No we haven’t Galaxy, much as some may wish it so. Working in prisons is tough. The last thing we need are vigilantes encouraged to act our murderous fantasies.
The behaviour of these two men is beyond my ability to describe. I understand the horror and anger expressed here, share it but encouraging murder or torture, even against this deprived evil pair won’t solve anything

Nobody is encouraging murder or torture. We are merely mentioning what will happen when they get to prison, whether we want it to happen or not.

I’m long retired but we don’t forget the children, their families or the training and experienced gained over many years. After Blair’s Working Together orange book of good practice guidance, my area set up good quality multi agency training. We developed constructive working relationships alongside good practice. I learned so much about non accidental injuries from our paediatricians

Preston’s history with these wicked depraved men is hard to contemplate. Red flags for me was their reluctance to cooperate with his foster carers, his primary attachment figures. The fractured elbow? Did an experienced paediatrician examine him, look at scans and X-rays. If a carer had told me the fracture occurred as he was putting the baby in his cot, alarm bells would have been blaring.

Doctors, like social workers, have become less likely to take the risks and pressures in children and families safeguarding work. They become scapegoats when things go wrong. I’m not defending shoddy, superficial practice. I’m suggesting austerity in public services is a contributory factor.

Case loads of maximum 12 are usually recommended by any reviews. Yet sw regularly have 20 or 30. There have always been a number of dangerous families. These two men seem to have charmed and manipulated practitioners and health staff, all of whom lacked curiosity about how a healthy happy baby was suddenly having a fracture, bruises and the reviewing officer noting a quieter presentation

Doctors and anyone else should speak up. The truth is what counts. I was once a whistleblower and stood in front of a board of directors and told of the fraudulent activity I had witnessed. Nobody should be afraid of being called a liar if they know they’re telling the truth.

I notice that we have uite rightly been given no details of the background of these people, families, education etc. It must be bad enough knowing that a close relative has done something as dreadful as this, with out being hounded by social media and even physical attack.

However it has had me thinking about how far a mothers/fathers love goes. We hear it said, and see examples of parents who standby their adult children no matter what they do, and I considered I was among that group.

But this violence on a small baby was so vile, I think I would want to expunge any child of mine, who could do such a thing, completely out of my life. Destroy the photos and any mention of them. I would not visit and I would leave my money elsewhere.

MOnica, I’ve also observed the absence of information about the extended families. I’d read Vardy’s mother was actively involved, including bathing Preston. He was shouting “I want my mum” at the hospital the day the baby died.
I share your view on total estrangement in this situation

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Surely I can’t be alone in wanting justice done here, ie a life sentence to mean just that - as say Ian Bradley and Myra Hindley - without this awful ‘he’ll get what’s coming to him in prison’ mentality?

To be incarcerated for the rest of one’s life IS punishment.

Well deserved but just think about the enormity of that for a few seconds. No chance of parole.

To deprive someone of their lifestyle is indeed a very harsh punishment.

I feel thinking that other prisoners might yet dole out their own form of justice is quite sickening. I take no pleasure in these thoughts.

We either have the death penalty or we do not.

I imagine he’ll probably be kept in solitary confinement for his own protection. The other monster too.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Surely I can’t be alone in wanting justice done here, ie a life sentence to mean just that - as say Ian Bradley and Myra Hindley - without this awful ‘he’ll get what’s coming to him in prison’ mentality?

To be incarcerated for the rest of one’s life IS punishment.

Well deserved but just think about the enormity of that for a few seconds. No chance of parole.

To deprive someone of their lifestyle is indeed a very harsh punishment.

I feel thinking that other prisoners might yet dole out their own form of justice is quite sickening. I take no pleasure in these thoughts.

We either have the death penalty or we do not.

I agree FGT, an appalling crime and an incarceration for life is well deserved.

As much as I hate what these monsters have done to that beautiful baby. As well as the appalling abuse, in hindsight they seemed most unsuitable to parent, not because they were gay, but because they didn't appear to understand the rigours of what parenting a baby can entail. They seemed to have an overriding desire to Instagram an ideal rather than a reality that they were completely unprepared for At times parenting babies, toddlers can be drudgery and full of sleepless nights. I wonder whether they were inculcated in the day to day routines which aren't stuff anyone would put on Instagram.

I really don't like the "they'll get what's coming" deserved no doubt! but it's not for those no better than they should be to mete out their considered brand of justice. Probably sounds wet but I don't approve of that kind of lynch mob mentality, even to completely wicked people.

We are simpatico on this issue Terribull
😊

We are FGT

It was far more than thesel perverts not realising how difficult it was to bring up a baby.

MissAdventure

It was far more than thesel perverts not realising how difficult it was to bring up a baby.

I know Miss Adventure it was far more than that.

I can't help feeling there are people out there desperate to become parents who would fit the suitable parents profile. These two seemed to have no idea

I think it was a pre planned idea.
I can't imagine one of them suddenly deciding to injure Preston out of the blue, and the other thinking it seemed s good idea and joining in, having never given it a thought before.

I am usually one of those speaking out against the lynch mob mentality, but there are aspects of this case that go beyond anything I have ever read before, including other trials of those killing children with utmost brutality.

If I worked in the prisons, I would do nothing to facilitate any attacks on these two despicable men. But it is a fact that they will be attacked whether we approve or not, and no matter what precautions are taken I fully accept that losing ones freedom for life is an awful punishment but there are some crimes that exceed all ones instinctive limits.

What I do not understand is why these men ever thought they could get away with this gross abuse of a baby. The freuent hospital visits would sooner or later lead to further investigations, and the injuries found would make it perfectly clear what was happening. If he had lived to go to nursery and/or school, abuse of this nature would very uickly be picked up.

So why do what they did, when they were educated and intelligent enough to know the cosneuences.

I’ve seen no reference to psychiatric or psychological assessments of either of these men. Given their not guilty plea and lengthy trial I’d be surprised if expert assessment didn’t happen, Jamie Vardey’s pantomime performance when that lifeless child was taken to A and E and the arrogance and stupidity he showed in police interviews seem an indicator of a narcissistic drama queen. I wonder if the inquiry will review the assessment sessions with these two depraved wicked men

MOnica’s question about how they expected to be able to continue their horrific abuse when they were intelligent enough to realise the damage they were inflicting,

This has touched me so much. How on earth did they get through all the checks and no red flags shown? This opens the floodgates to future adoption processes. And also the decent people now will be targeted and held back by the ever ending process of checks and re checks. I know a lovely couple going through the adoption process wondering how it will affect them.

I can only imagine how harrowing jury duty must have been in this case.

Harris27 There don't seem to have been any red flags. Both men had professional jobs, Varley was even Safeguarding trained at the school where he worked. They had no criminal history so their behaviour only came to light once they had responsibility for the child.

I worked with these types of offenders before I retired and they are highly manipulative, which is how they get away with their crimes for so long. I have seen the impact of their offences on the people closest to them who had no idea what they were capable of.

As I have stated on a previous similar thread, I am not going to say what my job was.

I read an article 2 or 3 days ago about their backgrounds. They both had very different childhoods.

One was from a challenging family, lots of truancy, bad behaviour in the town where we lived. A neighbour has given an interview where she said how relieved the street was when they were evicted

However the family is the teacher we're very different. I think was an only child. 5 bedroom detached home in Cheshire. Private school. Holidays abroad. His parents have been at the trial.

Shocking how these two men have turned out. Just criminal . But it doesn't look at if backgrounds played a huge part

It has been said that these gay men wanted a baby as an accessory. I don’t think they had any idea how to care for a baby and even wonder if they had any practical “training”. I did suggest earlier that all adopters should have a social worker living with them for several weeks before it is finalised. Even CCTV would be beneficial.

The dreadful sexual assaults I have no idea about. They must be very sick people who egged each other on.

Primrose53

It has been said that these gay men wanted a baby as an accessory. I don’t think they had any idea how to care for a baby and even wonder if they had any practical “training”. I did suggest earlier that all adopters should have a social worker living with them for several weeks before it is finalised. Even CCTV would be beneficial.

The dreadful sexual assaults I have no idea about. They must be very sick people who egged each other on.

I think having social workers living with them would be impractical, but attendance at child care courses and group meetings with parents with children to discuss the nitty gritty of parenthood should be compulsory, and in the settling period prior to adoption, which this couple were in, social workers should be making weekly visits.

It is said that the couple lived 'instgram' lives, perfect couple, perfect house and to complete the picture, the perfect baby, but, of course babies are not perfect. They wake freuently in the night, they scream for ages for no obvious reason, they are sick on the carpets and furniture, and some soiled nappies can be truly revolting. This sort of baby was not what they had in mind.

They were predators. All the training in the world wouldn't have helped.

I do wonder if any search is carried out on prospective adoptive parents as to their internet search history. I have no idea whether that would be possible or even available to those who are assessing people who want to adopt?