Equality and Diversity Laws, should these be scrapped??

Yes, we have gone off track, for the moment, but it was important to work through the concerns of a frequent poster, if we can.

From AI

"white working-class boys face severe, well-documented disadvantages, particularly in education"

"organisations and academic institutions push harder to address historical inequities, there has been a noticeable decline in the hiring and representation of young white men in elite pathways and some corporate roles"

" Many argue that well-intentioned quotas or diversity programs can inadvertently create a system where white males feel sidelined or systematically excluded from opportunities."

Surely the principle should be simple: the best person should get the job. Any form of discrimination, whether direct or indirect, is unfair. We are not calling for a return to "white privilege" or preferential treatment for any group; we are simply advocating for fairness, equal opportunity, and hiring based on merit, skills, and suitability for the role.

Reform have done nothing but exploit “white” people’s fears, anxieties and insecurities.

The media exacerbate this by repeatedly stating inaccurate and sometimes exaggerated claims about migrants and asylum seekers.

Together these two “bodies” have created hate and division in our country.

I cannot state with my hand on my heart that there have not been some utterly heartbreaking and appalling crimes carried out in our country by non-whites. These are not new, they are not acceptable and they get a huge amount more political and media coverage than similar crimes committed across decades by white British people (primarily men)

Does that make me hate all men? No, does it make me fear all non-white people? No.

It’s the sheer hatred some British people show towards many many people of different faiths/nationalities/skin colour that I find deeply disturbing.

We have gone way off track on this thread as creating equal opportunities for all to access jobs/services and live their lives independently goes far far beyond the sensibilities of a minority, and I do believe they are a minority of disgruntled white people of all ages and gender.

David49

Boz

I think David as a point in this day and age because really it comes down to Perception; young white males feel 'left out' so turn to Reform.

It's not just young men men of all ages feel the same and their votes are going to Reform, not just men many women think the same way, Badenoch for one, my wife for another and she is very independant thinking.

Disappointed so few bothered to respond with other reasons for the changes.

I think that there are a number of reasons why people are turning to Reform, although polling seems to suggest that the numbers have peaked.

There's financial insecurity, racism, disillusionment with the previously dominant political parties which they feel have done very little for them, and a constant stream of media and populists' reinforcement of their views.

As to your wife's support of your views, there were plenty of women who were against women having the vote. Perhaps you think enfranchising women was a bad move too?

OK David, let’s go with your views and beliefs.

How exactly is supporting Reform going to help Mr Average White British Male?

Is “stopping the boats” going to personally benefit them?

Is stopping all benefits going to help these poor men?

Which jobs would you like to see us women giving up so these white men (apparently so determined to work) can do instead of us?

How will stopping legitimate immigration help these white men?

I’m truly interested?

How will singing the national anthem at the end public meetings directly benefit these white men?

We have three daughters and two sons, we have raised them all the same, with the same rules and same rewards. We’ve raised 5 respectful humans, who have a work ethic and understand their own lives are now their responsibilities and to be resilient and to challenge injustice. To understand violence, rioting, etc is wrong. They all understand life is hard, sometimes not fair and that mistakes and hardship are actually a part of real life.

Perhaps, if everyone understood this we wouldn’t have “white British men” blaming everyone except themselves for their own frustrations and failures.

There are more opportunities than ever before in our world, along with more challenges.

It’s up to all of us to make the very best of the cards we’ve been dealt, and to reach out for help when we need it, or conversely, to give help to those who need it most

Actually, sad to say it, your post smacks of whinging and has made me quite cross!

Perhaps young, white males feel "left out" as they have been deprived of their perceived birthright which they see as entitling them to be given jobs in preference to anybody who is not white and male. White males don't own these jobs so how can they be taken a way from them.

Women and non-whites need to be able to afford food and accommodation so they need to earn money too.

MissAdventure

I thought that young, black males were the most vulnerable?

No, education is very important to black families. The children are encouraged and told they have to do well.
My partner a West Indian man, paid to have his son to be privately educated. He bought his local authority house, his then wife and him worked and one salary paid for his sons education. He was not hsppy with the schools in his area.It was hard but he taught his son about hard work, the importance of homework, and getting well qualified. The son also saw they bought there property and what hard work paid for. Education is very important to black families.

Boz

I think David as a point in this day and age because really it comes down to Perception; young white males feel 'left out' so turn to Reform.

It's not just young men men of all ages feel the same and their votes are going to Reform, not just men many women think the same way, Badenoch for one, my wife for another and she is very independant thinking.

Disappointed so few bothered to respond with other reasons for the changes.

I think David as a point in this day and age because really it comes down to Perception; young white males feel 'left out' so turn to Reform.

I find it quite sad, if it’s true, that white British males from any background would actually feel the way David describes.

Analyse it please, think again, look at history, not history of hundreds of years ago, but the history, particularly in the workplace, that has discriminated against women in particular (but also the disabled, gay people, black people)

1870 - All girls entitled to same free primary education as boys

1928 - not even 100 years ago, was the first time ALL women were allowed to vote.

1970 - women finally paid the same as men for doing the same job

1991, yes, 1991, was the date marital rape become a crime in England!

This is the tip of the iceberg.

The majority of lower paid jobs are still done by women, more women employed in the care sector, Primary Schools, cleaning, nursing, shop assistants and you dare to say women have taken jobs away from men?

On what planet are you living?

Women, the disabled, black people, to name just three groups, have been at the bottom of the barrel for hundreds of years and you think the changes in the last 100 years to try and rectify this have affected white British men so much they now support the lines of Reform and Restore!

Oh dear! They’ve not been discriminated against in any way whatsoever, they simply want a return to the days where they were the main breadwinnners (control) who would allow “the wife” to have a little part time job, so long as it didn’t interfere with housework, child bearing and rearing or give “the wife” too much freedom (more control)

Shame on men like these. Shame on any person who feels this way!

Back in 1956 my own DM had to give up her much loved role in the armed forces because she married!

Yes, wimmin, know your place! Get back in the kitchen.

In that case petra, from my reading of your post, thanks, it was the targets to blame, and not necessarily the philosophy.

For hundreds of years we have had positive discrimination in favour of white males who have dominated the job market, while not necessarily being the best person for the job.

Top jobs are still held predominantly by white males.

It seems that positive discrimination is fine as long as it favours the white male.

If one of our most respected institutions can get it so wrong how are others coping with the guidelines?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66060490

And to answer your question about why so many males support Reform, my opinion is that Reform behave like the aforementioned spoilt toddlers, who want their privileges back and blame everybody but themselves if they don't get their own way.

“White males are the largest group voting for Reform, not just high earners, working class too, they are very dissatisfied, this spills over into the riots we see in Southampton and Belfast. They are fed up with discrimination against them in many many ways, not least by women taking many of the jobs.“

In the words of my favourite ex-tennis player “
You CANNOT be serious”

Particularly your last line!

“Not least by women taking many of the jobs”

I’ve never read such a ludicrous statement!

I know many many normal average white British men, none of whom support Reform or Restore and none of whom feel the way you state!

My two adult sons and husband and DH have never expressed these kind of thoughts either!

David49

As I said I don't expect most of this forum to agree with my analysis.

Why do you think that many men and boys behaviour has got worse or why Reform gets so much support

If you want to know what I think (and I'm not sure you really do), I think it's because they're behaving like spoilt toddlers who don't like their privileges taken away.

I beg to differ, David. Do you not rate or respect the integrity of your fellow GNs?
We are all equal on this forum.
If you care to, put up an argument, from the perspective of a strong convincing point.

David49

White men are not excluded from protections. A white man can be discriminated against because of his age, disability, religion, sexual orientation, or even because he is male. Equality law protects everyone.

Positive discrimination is against them in all areas every company has to have their quota of every other group, white men have been the losers.

I realize that in this predominately female forum you are going to disagree, but if you want a reason for male behavior deteriorating and Reform gaining support it should be high on your list.

I think part of the disagreement here is that you're framing greater opportunities for other groups as something that has been taken away from white men.

Historically, white men have held a disproportionate share of positions of power and influence. Efforts to broaden access aren't necessarily discrimination against white men; they're often attempts to reduce barriers that previously benefited some groups more than others.

When people from underrepresented groups gain opportunities, it doesn't automatically mean someone else has been unfairly deprived. The assumption that white men are entitled to continue receiving the same share of opportunities as before is worth examining.

That doesn't mean every diversity initiative is perfect or beyond criticism, but it's a different argument from saying that white men are now the primary victims of discrimination.

David49

twaddle

David49

Discrimination and equality has gone mad there is only one group that is not vulnerable, white males, assuming they are not gay, disabled or some other disadvantage.
It doesn't affect me Im old and vulnerable now, so enjoying the advantages, that women, migrants, ethnic this or that and all the other groups have been getting.

In my opinion, that's a gross exaggeration.

White males are the largest group voting for Reform, not just high earners, working class too, they are very dissatisfied, this spills over into the riots we see in Southampton and Belfast. They are fed up with discrimination against them in many many ways, not least by women taking many of the jobs.

Discrimination doesn’t work against white males, it just means that other folk have similar privileges.

I kind of agree with it, of late.
Of course, there are other factors involved, but it's clear to me that they're dependent on the boy's background, upbringing, access to work, amongst other things.

As I said I don't expect most of this forum to agree with my analysis.

Why do you think that many men and boys behaviour has got worse or why Reform gets so much support

Oh David,"on this predominantly female forum you are going to disagree" that's a huge generalisation of women

I thought that young, black males were the most vulnerable?

So, David, challenging the rhetoric that the best appointee for a job will inevitably be the white male, and, at the highest level, from the correct school, has caused " male behaviour deteriorating"?
Please read that back and tell me that isn't the worst defence for terrible behaviour anyone has attempted to make.