Equality and Diversity Laws, should these be scrapped??

This is a purely political act and a very dangerous one. When Kemi Badenoch talks about Diversity, Equity and Inclusion (DEI) rules, she is primarily trying to appeal to the tribalism of several overlapping groups of voters:

Conservative voters who dislike "identity politics"
Voters considering Reform UK
Working-class voters across ethnic backgrounds

Removing measures such as the Public Sector Equality Duty would weaken safeguards against discrimination and make it harder to identify unequal impacts on different groups. What it will not do is improve the lives of the groups who are likely to find her words appealing - it may well make life worse for them too.

David49

Discrimination and equality has gone mad there is only one group that is not vulnerable, white males, assuming they are not gay, disabled or some other disadvantage.
It doesn't affect me Im old and vulnerable now, so enjoying the advantages, that women, migrants, ethnic this or that and all the other groups have been getting.

I don't think equality has "gone mad." What has changed is that society has become more aware that different groups can face different barriers, whether that's because of sex, race, disability, age, sexuality, or other factors.

White men are not excluded from protections. A white man can be discriminated against because of his age, disability, religion, sexual orientation, or even because he is male. Equality law protects everyone.

The purpose of diversity and equality measures isn't to give some groups advantages over others. It's to try to ensure that people have a fair opportunity regardless of their background. Sometimes those measures are imperfect and should be debated, but that's very different from saying that one group has no protection while everyone else receives special treatment.

Rather than seeing equality as a competition between groups, I'd rather focus on creating a society where nobody is disadvantaged because of characteristics they cannot change.

White men are not excluded from protections. A white man can be discriminated against because of his age, disability, religion, sexual orientation, or even because he is male. Equality law protects everyone.

Positive discrimination is against them in all areas every company has to have their quota of every other group, white men have been the losers.

I realize that in this predominately female forum you are going to disagree, but if you want a reason for male behavior deteriorating and Reform gaining support it should be high on your list.

You are surely not arguing that white male supremacy should be brought back in order to pacify some groups who "aren't coping" with the competition?

Please could you explain, David. The way I see it men have historically had the upper hand in a number of areas and they're not happy about losing it.

David49

Discrimination and equality has gone mad there is only one group that is not vulnerable, white males, assuming they are not gay, disabled or some other disadvantage.
It doesn't affect me Im old and vulnerable now, so enjoying the advantages, that women, migrants, ethnic this or that and all the other groups have been getting.

Are you serious, or are you just trying to wind up women on a site where we generally feel comfortable chatting amongst ourselves?

Vulnerable white males?? Look at the crime statistics before making such crass statements. Yes, there are systemic problems surrounding a subset of that group - working class males with flawed or no male role models - they are not best served by the education system, and society expects them to find roles despite their disadvantages, but in general white men are at a massive advantage. I can’t believe anyone would say otherwise (however big the chip on their shoulder) and believe it to be true.

So, David, challenging the rhetoric that the best appointee for a job will inevitably be the white male, and, at the highest level, from the correct school, has caused " male behaviour deteriorating"?
Please read that back and tell me that isn't the worst defence for terrible behaviour anyone has attempted to make.

I thought that young, black males were the most vulnerable?

Oh David,"on this predominantly female forum you are going to disagree" that's a huge generalisation of women

As I said I don't expect most of this forum to agree with my analysis.

Why do you think that many men and boys behaviour has got worse or why Reform gets so much support

I kind of agree with it, of late.
Of course, there are other factors involved, but it's clear to me that they're dependent on the boy's background, upbringing, access to work, amongst other things.

David49

twaddle

David49

Discrimination and equality has gone mad there is only one group that is not vulnerable, white males, assuming they are not gay, disabled or some other disadvantage.
It doesn't affect me Im old and vulnerable now, so enjoying the advantages, that women, migrants, ethnic this or that and all the other groups have been getting.

In my opinion, that's a gross exaggeration.

White males are the largest group voting for Reform, not just high earners, working class too, they are very dissatisfied, this spills over into the riots we see in Southampton and Belfast. They are fed up with discrimination against them in many many ways, not least by women taking many of the jobs.

Discrimination doesn’t work against white males, it just means that other folk have similar privileges.

David49

White men are not excluded from protections. A white man can be discriminated against because of his age, disability, religion, sexual orientation, or even because he is male. Equality law protects everyone.

Positive discrimination is against them in all areas every company has to have their quota of every other group, white men have been the losers.

I realize that in this predominately female forum you are going to disagree, but if you want a reason for male behavior deteriorating and Reform gaining support it should be high on your list.

I think part of the disagreement here is that you're framing greater opportunities for other groups as something that has been taken away from white men.

Historically, white men have held a disproportionate share of positions of power and influence. Efforts to broaden access aren't necessarily discrimination against white men; they're often attempts to reduce barriers that previously benefited some groups more than others.

When people from underrepresented groups gain opportunities, it doesn't automatically mean someone else has been unfairly deprived. The assumption that white men are entitled to continue receiving the same share of opportunities as before is worth examining.

That doesn't mean every diversity initiative is perfect or beyond criticism, but it's a different argument from saying that white men are now the primary victims of discrimination.

I beg to differ, David. Do you not rate or respect the integrity of your fellow GNs?
We are all equal on this forum.
If you care to, put up an argument, from the perspective of a strong convincing point.

David49

As I said I don't expect most of this forum to agree with my analysis.

Why do you think that many men and boys behaviour has got worse or why Reform gets so much support

If you want to know what I think (and I'm not sure you really do), I think it's because they're behaving like spoilt toddlers who don't like their privileges taken away.

“White males are the largest group voting for Reform, not just high earners, working class too, they are very dissatisfied, this spills over into the riots we see in Southampton and Belfast. They are fed up with discrimination against them in many many ways, not least by women taking many of the jobs.“

In the words of my favourite ex-tennis player “
You CANNOT be serious”

Particularly your last line!

“Not least by women taking many of the jobs”

I’ve never read such a ludicrous statement!

I know many many normal average white British men, none of whom support Reform or Restore and none of whom feel the way you state!

My two adult sons and husband and DH have never expressed these kind of thoughts either!

And to answer your question about why so many males support Reform, my opinion is that Reform behave like the aforementioned spoilt toddlers, who want their privileges back and blame everybody but themselves if they don't get their own way.

If one of our most respected institutions can get it so wrong how are others coping with the guidelines?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66060490

For hundreds of years we have had positive discrimination in favour of white males who have dominated the job market, while not necessarily being the best person for the job.

Top jobs are still held predominantly by white males.

It seems that positive discrimination is fine as long as it favours the white male.

In that case petra, from my reading of your post, thanks, it was the targets to blame, and not necessarily the philosophy.

Yes, wimmin, know your place! Get back in the kitchen.

I find it quite sad, if it’s true, that white British males from any background would actually feel the way David describes.

Analyse it please, think again, look at history, not history of hundreds of years ago, but the history, particularly in the workplace, that has discriminated against women in particular (but also the disabled, gay people, black people)

1870 - All girls entitled to same free primary education as boys

1928 - not even 100 years ago, was the first time ALL women were allowed to vote.

1970 - women finally paid the same as men for doing the same job

1991, yes, 1991, was the date marital rape become a crime in England!

This is the tip of the iceberg.

The majority of lower paid jobs are still done by women, more women employed in the care sector, Primary Schools, cleaning, nursing, shop assistants and you dare to say women have taken jobs away from men?

On what planet are you living?

Women, the disabled, black people, to name just three groups, have been at the bottom of the barrel for hundreds of years and you think the changes in the last 100 years to try and rectify this have affected white British men so much they now support the lines of Reform and Restore!

Oh dear! They’ve not been discriminated against in any way whatsoever, they simply want a return to the days where they were the main breadwinnners (control) who would allow “the wife” to have a little part time job, so long as it didn’t interfere with housework, child bearing and rearing or give “the wife” too much freedom (more control)

Shame on men like these. Shame on any person who feels this way!

Back in 1956 my own DM had to give up her much loved role in the armed forces because she married!

I think David as a point in this day and age because really it comes down to Perception; young white males feel 'left out' so turn to Reform.

Boz

I think David as a point in this day and age because really it comes down to Perception; young white males feel 'left out' so turn to Reform.

It's not just young men men of all ages feel the same and their votes are going to Reform, not just men many women think the same way, Badenoch for one, my wife for another and she is very independant thinking.

Disappointed so few bothered to respond with other reasons for the changes.

MissAdventure

I thought that young, black males were the most vulnerable?

No, education is very important to black families. The children are encouraged and told they have to do well.
My partner a West Indian man, paid to have his son to be privately educated. He bought his local authority house, his then wife and him worked and one salary paid for his sons education. He was not hsppy with the schools in his area.It was hard but he taught his son about hard work, the importance of homework, and getting well qualified. The son also saw they bought there property and what hard work paid for. Education is very important to black families.