Trump and the death penalty

My optimism on seeing the headline has diminished, now I see that the Orange Baboon isn't the target.

As he started his own Gestapo death squads, able to murder innocent citizens with apparently no legal action, this shouldn't be a surprise move.

This is the same barmpot who was asked about tougher gun control laws after the 2017 mass murder in Las Vegas (about 60 dead, hundreds injured) and said "We'll look at it". And then made it even easier to acquire guns.

One of the many sentences he's pardoned was a 45 year term for a renowned drugs baron, plus of course all (or most of) those guilty of the attempted Capitol revolution (clearly treason). We may find out in future years how much the Chump coffers have increased?

I think that Trump has shattered the illusion once and for all that the USA is a civilised first world democracy.

It beggars belief that so many people voted in a senile, degenerate, narcissist to hold such a powerful position for a second term.

This latest outrage against humanity is just more proof that Trump is a deranged monster.

There are so many intelligent, talented and humane people in the USA and it is a travesty that they have to endure being represented by the orange baby and his thicko followers.

It is worth mentioning the name Mark Burnett, from the UK, in connection with the popularising of Trump.

It is for Federal and Military cases. Each state also has the right to set its own policy.

The death penalty still exist in about half the American states. Is this latest perhaps about convicted military personnel? Bad enough with already existing states but if this is a blanket proposal for the whole of USA just awful.

I believe in Blackstone's Ratio (bold is mine)

"Fourthly, all presumptive evidence of felony should be admitted cautiously, for the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer. And Sir Matthew Hale in particular lays down two rules most prudent and necessary to be observed: 1. Never to convict a man for stealing the goods of a person unknown, merely because he will give no account how he came by them, unless an actual felony be proved of such goods; and, 2. Never to convict any person of murder or manslaughter till at least the body be found dead; on account of two instances he mentions where persons were executed for the murder of others who were then alive but missing.[3]"

There is an organization in the US who works for those who are wrongly convicted.

innocenceproject.org/all-cases/

I support the death penalty for Trump. Hitler, Mao, Stalin. And any other mastermind who thinks overthrowing the world order is the thing to do.

Secretly, I think the person who needs to be tried and executed if convicted is Steven Miller. He is the mastermind here, Trump is just his useful idiot. And I am worried of making Trump a martyr.

I am against the death penalty. No state or government should take a life. What kind of example does that set? I believe everyone should have the chance of rehabilitation. Too often criminals are the product of a totally dis-functional upbringing. I am not saying the worst criminals should necessarily be set free, but they shouldnt be murdered by the State.

Of course, any case where there is the slightest doubt wouldn't incur the death penalty.

I am totally against the death penalty, IMO it is not the way a civilised society should deal with it's worst criminals. However, a very good reason for not having a death penalty is the willingness of a jury to find someone guilty of murder. I would not be prepared to find someone guilty if I thought they would be executed and I doubt that I am the only one.

Sorry MissAdventure I don't really understand what point you are making by mentioning the Wests. They were a very clear cut case of guilty as charged for multiple murders.

I think the point Plunger was making is that if the death penalty is enforced there is a chance that innocent people are slaughtered for a murder they did not commit. It is well documented that this has happened in the past.

I am not only opposed to the death penalty I am also a pacifist.

Do you think Fred and Rose West were found guilty in error, Plunger?

Didn't they use to say to the execution squad, that one of the bullets was a blank, to make it easier for them to take part.

Actually, Trump's least favourite critic, namely Pope Leo, has already made it abundantly clear that in his opinion no civilized state should still have or use the death penalty.

Sadly states that do still have it, see the matter differently.

MissAdventure

I support the death penalty.

All very well supporting the death penalty but what about the effect it has on those conducting the execution? Edward Heath ex PM was, as an Army officer, in charge of the execution by firing squad of a prisoner and it had a profound effect on him. He was totally opposed to the death penalty. Also what about errors?

Yes, the chances of the accused being given an incorrect verdict of 'innocent' could increase if Jurors were faced with condemning someone to death by giving the verdict of 'guilty'.

I totally oppose the death penalty because, to me, it is the equivalent of murder! Too many times I have read that the convicted person has experienced a most dreadful death as the method chosen did not work effectively.
Also, people have died who were found innocent of the crime they were convicted of.
I wonder if the people chosen to effect these executions will volunteer or be chosen? Trump is getting beyond belief.

Macaydia

Why are the methods for a death penalty execution different than methods used for assisted suicide?

Probably because assisted suicides volunteer to die, and agree to do it themselves when provided with the means.

Unlike convicted criminals on death row.

I too am against the death penalty. Nobody should have the right to take another’s life regardless of circumstances.

However I think if convicted of murder you should die in prison , no cushy parole after a few years. Your victim didn’t get another chance

mokryna

At least one man on death row has been proved innocent Freed after 22 years.

Yes, that's what bothers me. I flounder in my beliefs. If I see a particularly heinous crime. I hear myself saying they should get the death penalty. This does not make me any better than them though. Its a revenge thought.

What 'good' does the death penalty do?
Compare our crime stats with the USA.
They have the death penalty.
Has it made any improvement?

At the time of the capital punishment debates in the UK, in 1961 Penguin published two books, "Hanged by the Neck", which put the moral case for abolition, and "Hanged in Error", which focussed on a number of cases where innocent people had been hanged. Together they were very convincing.

At least one man on death row has been proved innocent Freed after 22 years.

Good, time we brought it back

Basgetti

Bit behind on the news, read your thread title and immediately thought, to quote the marvellous Fred MCCauley, “what’s the mad b*****d” done now?”

Nothing that lunatic does surprises me any more. He must be making life very difficult for satirists. Nothing they can say will top him.

& if satirists try, he takes it personally & pulls every string he can see to get them cancelled.

I found Hegseth speech at a Normandy last weekend, one of the most appalling speeches I have heard in a long while.

It isn’t just the people that have to do the execution that may be traumatised. What about the jury knowing that their decision will result in an execution. I think I read once that if there is a death penalty a jury is more likely to veer on the side of caution and give a not guilty verdict, even if the person on trial is probably guilty but there is a very slight element of doubt.