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What reform if any is needed in relation to Crown Estate Property? Subletting of royal properties currently in the news.....

(72 Posts)
LemonJam Sun 07-Jun-26 11:36:28

Dr Craig Prescott, a specialist in UK constitutional law at Royal Holloway, University of London, said from a property law perspective it was perfectly normal to get a lease on an estate and then sublet different parts of it. However, when it came to royalty, perception was key.

“The perception is of people living in massive palaces or properties, and the concern is that they’re getting a very good deal or, worse, making money from it,” Prescott said. The fact it was a crown estate property led to “more scrutiny” because its profits go to the Treasury, he said, adding that Mountbatten-Windsor had paid £7.5m upfront at the start of his lease.

The royal household manages and maintains the land and buildings in the occupied royal palaces estate through the sovereign grant. The occupied palaces are not owned by the monarch, but held “in the right of the crown” in trust for the nation, and include official residences such as Buckingham Palace, Windsor Castle, St James’s Palace, Clarence House and Kensington Palace.

The royal household generates rental income to help support the monarch in official duties by charging for residential properties within the occupied royal palaces estate, which amounted to £3.6m in 2024-25. As of May 2026, the royal household had 255 properties available for use within the occupied palaces. Before 2011, the Department for Culture, Media and Sport was accountable to parliament for their upkeep, and delegated responsibility to the royal household in return for an annual grant.

Under David Cameron, the Sovereign Grant Act removed the responsibility of the secretary of state so that in future the properties would be maintained by the monarch out of the grant.

Prescott said: “The problem is essentially of perception here. That all this is so complicated and difficult to explain and understand; what is public and what is private is really quite a complex question at times. The reality is hidden behind all this complexity and that doesn’t help for public understanding.”

twaddle Sun 07-Jun-26 17:18:19

GrannyGravy13

I am extremely happy being me twaddle

I do not need any more houses or £millions

I do not envy them, but I do admire their sense of duty to the UK and commonwealth 👑

Well, I'm also quite happy being me, which is just as well.

However, if a gun were put to my head and I had to be Duke of Westminster or King Charles, I'd be Duke of Westminster.

Owning the Grosvenor Estates seem a lot less hassle than owning the Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall - and possibly more lucrative.

Samwam Sun 07-Jun-26 17:16:11

The royals, government and the BBC call the Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall 'private estates'. But these huge land owning enterprises belong to the nation. And it's time we took them back.

The Channel 4 Dispatches documentary last year exposed how Charles and William make huge profits from these estates. A lot of the money comes from charities, schools, the NHS and other public services.

Last year the Duchy of Cornwall gave William more than £24m - and he refuses to say how much tax he pays, if he pays any at all.

LemonJam Sun 07-Jun-26 16:57:05

The Duke of Westminster can engage the best tax advise to pay the lowest amount of tax within the law, has freedom to choose his own investment strategies and is not answerable to the public or anti monarchy campaigners.

In light of current media reports a spokesperson for the crown estate said: “The crown estate welcomes the National Audit Office’s review, which confirms its leases with members of the royal family were agreed in line with independent, professional advice and open market valuations. We look forward to discussing the report further with the public accounts committee in due course.”

A Buckingham Palace spokesperson also said: “We are grateful to the National Audit Office for this report, which is in line with the royal household’s commitment to transparency. We hope that the findings will help correct, clarify or contextualise a number of points regarding royal properties. “As the report notes, arrangements for properties managed by the royal household vary based on a number of factors to ensure residences are filled appropriately".

GrannyGravy13 Sun 07-Jun-26 16:56:32

I am extremely happy being me twaddle

I do not need any more houses or £millions

I do not envy them, but I do admire their sense of duty to the UK and commonwealth 👑

twaddle Sun 07-Jun-26 16:50:07

LemonJam

I guess the monarch and heir are legally barred from selling off their estate capital assets? All their capital must be reinvested in the estate- which doesn't apply to the Duke of Westminster.

The monarch and heir also voluntarily pay the highest rate of standard income tax on the revenue from their respective estates unlike the Duke of Westminster. In comparison the Grosvenor estate, because it is held in a complex discretionary trust rather than his personal name is thus subject only to periodic tax charges. He also side steps 40% death duties.

I'd rather be the Duke of Westminster than king or queen.

NotSpaghetti Sun 07-Jun-26 16:45:56

King Charles owns these:

​Balmoral Castle and the estate -including the hunting lodge on the estate. Also Craigowan Lodge - a cottage about a mile from Balmoral.

​The Castle of Mey - opened to the public but held privately via a trust.

​Sandringham House and estate and
​Wood Farm - on the estate.

I think that's "all" (!) he actually owns...

Not as much as people expect I guess though.

LemonJam Sun 07-Jun-26 16:40:04

I guess the monarch and heir are legally barred from selling off their estate capital assets? All their capital must be reinvested in the estate- which doesn't apply to the Duke of Westminster.

The monarch and heir also voluntarily pay the highest rate of standard income tax on the revenue from their respective estates unlike the Duke of Westminster. In comparison the Grosvenor estate, because it is held in a complex discretionary trust rather than his personal name is thus subject only to periodic tax charges. He also side steps 40% death duties.

twaddle Sun 07-Jun-26 16:23:04

How are the duchies of Cornwall and Lancaster different from the holdings of the Duke of Westminster?

LemonJam Sun 07-Jun-26 16:09:47

I understand campaigners would like the Duchy of Lancaster and Duchy of Cornwall estates to be transferred to the Crown Estate. But currently they are officially categorised as historic private estates. It's an ongoing debate yet not resolved.

The former is owned by the reigning monarch and its net income ( after tax) goes into the privacy purse. It is officially described as a private estate held in trust although it operates commercially like a private company.

The latter is owned by the heir to the throne. It is also designated as a private estate with a commercial imperative and its net profits are used to fund the public, charitable and private activities of the Prince of Wales.

Neither can be sold or liquidated by the reigning royal.

Publication of all accounts and transparency is healthy. Both Duchy accounts are published on their official websites for the public to scrutinise should they so wish and laid before both Houses of Parliament annually. Legally both are exempt from income tax on profits but both the king and Prince of Wales voluntarily play income tax on the profits from these estates.

GrannyGravy13 Sun 07-Jun-26 15:35:12

Grandmaofone

what happened to Charles place in Wales, does anyone know?
I have looked, honestly, only found that he didn’t want to keep it now that he was no longer PoW
which seemed a little churlish
that William showed no interest even though he is now PoW
then the trail goes cold
I thought it was lovely, plain, simple, Shaker ish, an antidote
to the red gold splendour of palaces

It’s available for anyone to rent if you Google

Samwam Sun 07-Jun-26 15:34:26

The Duchy of Lancaster and Cornwall are not private estates. They should be subsumed with the crown estate as stated by Norman Baker and Andrew Lownie in their piece about the monarchy not over £50 million given annually to Charles and William. Ditch the Duchies it's not their land.

LemonJam Sun 07-Jun-26 15:04:29

The financial accounts of the Monarch's private Duchy of Lancaster estate are already legally required by law to be presented annually to Parliament- so already transparent. The estate is legally and financially separate from the Crown Estate.

Casdon Sun 07-Jun-26 14:53:47

Grandmaofone

Also why hasn’t William had an investiture if he is PoW
there has been no solemn ceremony; are the Welsh disappointed?

The King never owned the house in Wales, it belongs to the Duchy of Cornwall, and he leased it. It hasn’t been sold.

William himself decided he did not want the pomp and expense involved in an investiture as Prince of Wales. He’s good at reading the zeitgeist, and has been well thought of in Wales as a result of making that decision.

LemonJam Sun 07-Jun-26 14:47:35

11 working royals are granted free housing directly connected to their official roles- we know all who the current working royals are. Several other Royals have their rents discounted i.e Eugenie (at Ivy Cottage), Beatrice (St Jame's Palace), Prince and Princess Michael of Kent (Kensington Palace) - any more? The gap between discounted rent paid and full market rent is paid by King Charles private privy purse funds. All legal and I can't see the problem. A president would also be granted free housing directly connected to their official role.

The King's private privy purse funds are primarily generated by the net revenue of the Duchy of Lancaster, a massive private estate held in trust for the reigning monarch since 1339. I don't have a problem in Charles accessing this fund to pay the discounted rent amount of the handful of Royals who do not pay the full market rent in Kensington Palace and St James's Palace. Realistically these properties could not be released for rent on the open market to anyone other than the royal family

No problem in the Audit Office looking into either rent. paid, King Charles private privy purse funds etc - transparency is good.

JaneJudge Sun 07-Jun-26 14:43:42

Wont some of these properties be for their workers?

There are a few very old money people nr here and their properties on their estates (or villages) are just let out to normal folk and the people who work on the estates. There is a lot of philanthropy involved. I'm trying to look for a silver lining

Grandmaofone Sun 07-Jun-26 14:39:29

Also why hasn’t William had an investiture if he is PoW
there has been no solemn ceremony; are the Welsh disappointed?

Grandmaofone Sun 07-Jun-26 14:37:41

what happened to Charles place in Wales, does anyone know?
I have looked, honestly, only found that he didn’t want to keep it now that he was no longer PoW
which seemed a little churlish
that William showed no interest even though he is now PoW
then the trail goes cold
I thought it was lovely, plain, simple, Shaker ish, an antidote
to the red gold splendour of palaces

Grandmaofone Sun 07-Jun-26 14:33:58

It’s a shame Charles did not ‘honour his mother’s wishes’
before turfing Angela Kelly from her promised home.

Samwam Sun 07-Jun-26 14:23:56

The royals, including those who do few public engagements, are benefiting from free palatial homes in Kensington Palace and St James's Palace.

Others are getting massively subsidised rents which are paid for by Charles's Duchy income.

The so-called 'privy purse' which the royals use to pay for some of these palatial homes is also funded by public funds, drawn from the state owned Duchy of Lancaster.

Eleven royals get free homes in Kensington Palace and St James's Palace.

Multi billion worth public property for the royals use cannot be justified. Good that the Audit Office is looking into this.

LemonJam Sun 07-Jun-26 14:20:53

I am with Monica- if the Royals are operating within the law and tenants are paying the market rent themselves, or someone is paying on their behalf- e.g. Kind Charles- what is the problem?

The British monarch began voluntarily to pay taxes in 1993 so fair.

Currently the sovereign is legally exempt from paying inheritance tax on assets passed from one monarch to the next- all other royals are subject to paying death duties I understand.

On the one hand this preserves the Crown's assets from one monarch to the next. Successive taxation over generations could gradually erode the monarchy's estate, which could undermine its financial independence and traditional role in national life. Plus a large proportion of royal wealth (such as palaces and the Royal Collection) is held in an official capacity by the monarch on behalf of the nation anyway. Thus they are not assets that can be sold- thus making standard inheritance tax inapplicable.

If you are an anti monarchist most likely you would support the payment of death duties and would not be unduly concerned about erosion over time of the monarchy's estate. If you are pro monarchy and anti republic you might wish the sovereign grant to be increased in the year the monarch dies to allow for death duties payable in order to preserve the institution.

Also a republic in place of a monarchy would cost the nation money- i.e. cost of periodic presidential elections, presidential residence, travel, pay, financial support and security for former heads of state and their families etc etc. Would it be less or more. than the current cost of the monarchy?

M0nica Sun 07-Jun-26 13:52:32

Samwam

"The British taxpayer does not owe palatial homes to Charles's extended family. Why are we making homes available at huge discounts to Andrew's daughters, or the late Queen's cousins?"

"Charles and William are billionaires, avoiding inheritance and other taxes, taking personal incomes from public property portfolios in excess of £50m a year. The royals can pay for their own homes."

"The Crown Estate and royal palace property portfolio is state property. It should all be used for the benefit of the public, not the private enrichment of the royals."

"The NAO's report raises far more questions than it answers. MPs need to seize this moment to push for radical reform, including removing all royals but the monarch from publicly owned accommodation."

Since the arrangements conform with British property law and the tenants are paying market rents for the properties, whatis the problem. Why move non-working royals from the properties, if they pay the market rent . Would you prefer to see these properties let out to Chinese billionaires and Middle Eastern royalty - most Middle Eastern royalties idea of royalty seems to continue down the generations so their are thousands and thousands of them. Chacun a son gout.

As for the rest, yes, I think they should pay death duties, they do pay income tax

Anniebach Sun 07-Jun-26 13:40:28

Cossy who are the many being funded ? How many are entitled? The. Late Queen paid for her 2 granddaughters. Seems the King is honouring his mother wishes ?

Calendargirl Sun 07-Jun-26 13:34:57

Perhaps the King paying for Beatrice and Eugenie’s London accommodation was part of the deal to get Andrew out of Royal Lodge?

I’ve no idea how long he’s been paying it, but I’m sure there has been ‘concessions’ on both sides to get AMW to upsticks to Sandringham.

Basgetti Sun 07-Jun-26 13:24:08

How lucky are you, Witzend, living close to Richmond Park. I love the sound of the deer during rutting season! Can you hear them from home?
Anyway, as you were 😁

Cossy Sun 07-Jun-26 13:20:36

I think, quite fairly speaking, it’s the extent of the properties available for their use.

London is our capital City, and has our parliament residing there too, it’s quite reasonable to expect the Royal’s to use this building for all royal functions and visiting dignitaries. It’s certainly big enough. If it’s not been well maintained, shame on them.

Many of their state owned and “personal” properties are already opening to the public for partial visits, all will have shops and “eateries” and must make good income.

It’s utterly ridiculous for the King to pay the rent on Andrew’s daughter’s apartments, they are not working Royals, they both worked commercially and by normal standards neither they nor their husbands are hard up.

I don’t wish to “do away” with the Royal's, nor do I expect them to have to live as the majority of us live. I’d hate to be a member of the Royal family, despite their riches and privileges, our Kate Queen had no life really, most of it was spent “doing her duty”.

I simply think there are still too many being funded who simply don’t need to be.

As for those entitled ** like Andrew, I have no time for him and I would imagine his siblings are both deeply ashamed and a little disgruntled.

I cannot compare business tycoons like Dyson with the RF. Dyson worked for his wealth and (I’m assuming) pays for all his land and property himself. The RF were simply born into the RF, hardly an achievement.