Henry Nowak…….an absolute tragedy.

Farage is calling for a reaction of "pure cold rage" ... why is he not prosecuted for inciting violence?

Well it will all come out in the inquiry won’t it, but we can all see and agree that the police who attended this incident got it badly wrong.

surfsup

Lemonjam

*No Hate Crime Conviction: Minnesota prosecutors, including Attorney General Keith Ellison, publicly stated that there was no explicit or overt statement of motive to prove Chauvin committed a hateful crime driven by racial bias*

Surfsup- There is clear evidence of Chauvin's repeated pattern of behaviour, ie. his use of excessive force against black men- see some detail in post above.

correction- 2017 not 2027

There was no overt or explicit statement of motive because Chauvin's murder trial focussed solely and entirely on his actions and whether they met the legal standard for murder which they did. The trial did not focus specifically on Chauvin's motivation. but on his brutal, excessive use of force..

Following his murder conviction, in his motivation context, the State and Federal investigations into the Minneapolis Police Department concluded that Chauvin operated within a department that exhibited widespread, systemic racial bias. See DOJ finding on Police Culture 2023, and 2022 State Investigation by Minnesota Department of Human Rights.

You may or may not be aware that Chauvin had 15 misconduct findings against him prior to Floyd's death e.g. involving racial misconduct. Some attracted significant settlements e.g. the City of Minneapolis reached a nearly $ 9 million settlement regarding 2 lawsuits brought against Chauvinism by 2 Black residents who accused him of excessive force and racial misconduct in 2027

Lemonjam

No Hate Crime Conviction: Minnesota prosecutors, including Attorney General Keith Ellison, publicly stated that there was no explicit or overt statement of motive to prove Chauvin committed a hateful crime driven by racial bias

Oh yeah you're in most of her threads Tulip. That makes sense. Talking about respect... it's a two way street. The constant spouting of the the gross Farage reform party and his bunch of sexist, racist, violent and embezzling creeps is just tooo much! We all may have political views and choices of who we support. But they are often personal, or if shared then it's done in a respectful way and certainly not forced on everyone else. She barely reads posts but constantly responds inaccurately. And certainly spoils the tone and respect of the subject of this post. So no I don't feel shame, I feel exasperated and fed up with the ill thought out aggressive Farage drivel.

ronib

I would like a second and third opinion in this particular situation. What makes this pathologist such an authority? How does he know that medical attention one hour before would not have helped?*Tuliptree*

The pathology report necessarily came with independent second opinion plus other checks- done and dusted.

ronib

I would like a second and third opinion in this particular situation. What makes this pathologist such an authority? How does he know that medical attention one hour before would not have helped?*Tuliptree*

Ronib FYI- see posts this time yesterday - setting out detail of forensic pathology report process- degree of scrutiny and independent review, audit etc plus pathologist was witness in court for cross examination by defence and prosecution.

The defence also was able to commission its own forensic pathologist and had every opportunity to rebut forensic pathologist evidence.

surfsup

foxie48

Surfsup Actually there's lots of evidence of racism in policing in the US. George Floyd was arrested and murdered by a white policeman who is serving 22 years for his murder. The fact he had a criminal record or had fentanyl in his system is completely immaterial, he was asphyxiated by a policeman sitting on his neck for 9 minutes whilst he struggled to breathe. To compare the death of Henry Nowak to the death of George Floyd is frankly ludicrous. Added to that there were at least 256 black men shot by police in the the US in 2020, black men are nearly three times more likely to be shot by the police than white men. The issue of police violence towards black men in the US is extremely well documented.

I’m not the one who brought George Floyd into the discussion and whether you agree or not his death was politicised.

It’s also well documented that far more white people were killed by police in the US.

As per usual on here anyone with a different viewpoint, however objective, is labelled, directly or inferred. There are lots of other facts well documented here and in the US - ie crime statistics but some prefer to turn a blind eye.

However, this thread is about Henry Nowak and his appalling treatment by the police. Some are seeking to excuse those officers for their dereliction of duty and lack of humanity and I will continue to challenge that viewpoint.

Statista Research Department: Statista.com

Objective evidence- In 2025, per million people, Black Americans faced a higher rate of fatal police shootings in the US than any other racial and ethnic groups.

Cossy

foxie48

Surfsup Actually there's lots of evidence of racism in policing in the US. George Floyd was arrested and murdered by a white policeman who is serving 22 years for his murder. The fact he had a criminal record or had fentanyl in his system is completely immaterial, he was asphyxiated by a policeman sitting on his neck for 9 minutes whilst he struggled to breathe. To compare the death of Henry Nowak to the death of George Floyd is frankly ludicrous. Added to that there were at least 256 black men shot by police in the the US in 2020, black men are nearly three times more likely to be shot by the police than white men. The issue of police violence towards black men in the US is extremely well documented.

Completely agree.

Completely agree.

Further to the discussion a couple of pages ago, the coroner has confirmed they will examine if the police actions contributed to his death.

surfsup

There’s no evidence that George Floyd died because of racist beliefs. He was a criminal and was being arrested. The officer knelt on his neck and he died but there was also Fentanyl in his bloodstream which could have contributed to his death. There’s no question his death was politicised and yet, there’s calls for calm over Henry’s murder, which quite possibly was aided by police - he certainly wasn’t helped as he should have been.

I find it strange one death of a criminal is supposedly because of “racist beliefs” but another of an innocent white boy is deemed nothing to do with race or the police’s “racist beliefs”.

People push for what suits their narrative.

Surfsup- you are fully aware Henry was murdered by Digwa not by police officers I hope.

George Floyd was brutally murdered by police officers but you say there was no evidence of racist beliefs. Why did those police officers murder Floyd then in your view.

George Floyd bought a packet of cigarettes using a 20 dollar bill which the shop assistant believed was counterfeit so called the police. He was black.

Officers arrived and handcuffed Floyd on suspicion of passing a 20 dollar counterfeit bill and this ended with Floyd facing down on the street. Onlookers began filming. Officer Chauvin placed his left knee on Floyd's neck and shoulder and kept it there for 9 and a half minutes. 2 other officers pinned Floyd down to assist whilst another tried to prevent witnesses from intervening and trying to stop the murder. All this was filmed.

More than 20 times Floyd said he could not breathe, Chauvin's force, for 9.5 minutes resulted in asphyxiation, and Floyd was pronounced dead one hour later. Whether Floyd did or did not have fentanyl in his blood stream could not be known at the time of handcuffing and has no relevance or causative factor to his murder.

You claim there is no evidence that any of the 4 the officers held racist beliefs. On what basis do you claim this? Why did they brutally murder Floyd? Is it your view that level of force, for 9.5 minutes, to the extent of asphyxiation, was justified and was objectively reasonable- if so why?

You mention fentanyl in Floyd's bloodstream inferring this may have contributed to Floyd's death. Yet an expert witness said that even a healthy person, subjected to what Mr Floyd was subjected to, would have died". Have you read the judge's sentencing remarks? Does a suspecting passing of a counterfeit bill merit a police officer murdering a black man?

Chauvinism pleaded not guilty to charges of second degree unintentional murder, third degree murder and manslaughter. It took the jury. under a day to return a unanimous verdict convicting him of all charges.

You are clearly pushing for what suits your narrative.

Plevey08

You've gotta admit she's driving people to it!

No I don’t actually - just show some respect

You've gotta admit she's driving people to it!

Do you really feel mocking a fellow poster for their very name, even if you disagree strongly, is really appropriate on a thread it this, Plevey?

Shame on you.

Message deleted by Gransnet for breaking our forum guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

twaddle

*People push for what suits their narrative.*

Some people do. Some people actively try to be objective.

This is true. Farage spoke out to push his ethonationalist narrative. Other people are more objective and realise there is no evidence there is 2 tier policing discriminating against white people. All the evidence is to the contrary.

twaddle

ronib

Talking to some young men, I can assure you that Henry Nowak is not forgotten. Farage has articulated the mood of the country whether GNet agrees or not with him. We have hit a new low and young people are furious that an 18 year old died coming back from the pub. Fury compounded by the arresting officers.

I disagree. Farage has not spoken for me or anybody I know.

Farage has not spoken for me- and everyone I have spoken to since he made his comments are appalled. Farage has not articulated the mood of the country and does not speak for the country. He makes his comments to trigger and create division.

The majority of the HoC was appalled on Wednesday at PMQs- many were jeering and booing Farage.

Cossy

LemonJam

I can't speak for anyone else- but I feel it would be better to tone down all the speculation and just wait for the IOPC report and the Inquest Jury decision- a process in which the family will be involved.

Better for Henry's family, in line with their wishes- and better for the safety of people in Southampton.

I completely agree.

There’s one person to blame for this completely out of control murder.

It’s not the police, who handled this badly and made errors, but who were acting on what they felt was accurate intel from the brother and the perpetrator, it’s not the victim, it’s not Sikhs in general and it’s certainly not the PM.

Anyone, either here or on any other media site, who is attempting to use this horrific and tragic murder to further express their utter contempt towards our police and our PM, or to speculate on whether Henry could/should have been saved if the police had acted differently should 1) feel utter shame, 2) wait for the full results of the inquiry and autopsy and 3) take a leaf out of Henry’s family’s book and take a calm step back and behave with the same respect for Henry as they are!

I entirely agree Cossy 👏

What have I speculated or generalised about, Primrose53?

That's true ronib. It is about self preservation and knowing what you might be dealing with. I went to see a neurologist and on the board outside he was written down as a urologist. I did check with him when I went in.

I suppose that could be considered a waste of precious time, since they were goimg to what they'd been told was an assault?

twaddle

Sago

Tuliptree

ronib

The evidence if you want to call it that is that Henry Nowak took just over one hour to die from stab wounds. I don’t know how a pathologist would know for sure that with medical intervention, his life may have been saved or not.

Read the judges sentencing remarks. Some injuries are just not survivable even if you don’t die immediately . And experienced medics know this. I really don’t understand why based on zilch evidence anyone wants to believe he would have survived. It’s a pity ( in lots of ways) that the inquest is so far away.

It does not matter if he would have survived his injuries or not.

The Police did not act in such a way to give the best chance of survival.

This in itself is a crime.

Quite! What people are failing to grasp is that the police have a duty of care. It doesn't matter if Henry had been racist or not, nor whether his injuries were survivable or what etnic group any of them belonged to.

What none of us knows is what the situation was like when the police first arrived. My understanding is that there were only two minutes from the time of the arrival until it was realised that Henry was seriously injured. I don't think all of the two minutes has been captured on video (could be wrong).

With hindsight, it should have been realised that Henry was injured and an ambulance should have been called. I expect the inquiry will go over and over those two minutes to understand what happened. Did the officers follow the correct procedure? If not, why not?

What I do know is that speculation by thousands of online "observers" isn't going to bring Henry back or bring any comfort to the Norwak family. Hatred of the police as an organisation isn't helpful either.

You do realise you are one of the “thousands of online observers” speculating too. 🤔

I was wondering if when the police received the call from the brother, I'm assuming he had to give his name. And as we have heard there was a family history involving knives and violence, which didn't end in prosecution. So don't the police automatically find out any previous concerns before they attend the incident? And wouldn't that have made them wary of what the 2 brothers were saying? Or at least not taken it at face value.