Henry Nowak…….an absolute tragedy.

Thank you Surfsup for your subsequent post admitting that I have not stated "Henry wasn't dragged across the gravel"

I’m sorry I didn’t use the EXACT words you posted. You did. however, state the police didn’t manhandle Henry when it was clear they did.

In response to posters referencing the pathologists report that Henry’s wouldn’t have survived such a stab wound regardless of any intervention.

^Could Henry Nowak have survived? Dr. Krzysztof Magier
@DrMagier^
, a pediatrician and former honorary consul of the Republic of Poland in Cowes, analyzed footage from a police body camera showing Henry Nowak's death. Dr. Magier heads the pediatric intensive care unit, with experience in combat medicine training and a specialized course in treating severe injuries (including gunshot and stab wounds). He disagrees with the pathologist's and judge's opinion that Henry Nowak had no chance of survival and that handcuffing him essentially changed nothing. On the contrary—there is a high likelihood that the police intervention contributed to his death. He analyzed the autopsy report, which points to damage to the subclavian vein as the main source of bleeding, and explains where the problem lies. In a healthy person, venous bleeding occurs under low pressure and often self-limits thanks to the naturally forming clot, while simply approximating the wound edges and compressing the surrounding tissues closes the vein enough to slow or even stop the bleeding. The body camera footage shows that when police arrived on the scene (likely 5-10 minutes after the injury), Henry was conscious enough to speak quite loudly. He was therefore not yet in a terminal state. After his arms were twisted behind his back and handcuffed, the vein was most likely stretched, the clot torn, and bleeding dramatically intensified. Within just about three minutes, he lost consciousness and died. People with suspected internal injuries should never be moved or yanked abruptly—such actions can destroy the natural clot and lead to massive internal hemorrhage. Instead of immediately calling a medical rescue team and handing the patient over to paramedics, the police handcuffed him. If paramedics had arrived first on the scene, Henry’s chances of survival would have been much higher. "50%"—writes Dr. Magier. Paramedics could have quickly started an IV, administered fluids to increase circulating blood volume, and tranexamic acid to stabilize the clot, and if needed, performed needle decompression (inserting a large, long needle into the lung), because the issue wasn’t so much lack of lung function, but compression of the blood-filled lung on the heart and mediastinum, which blocks circulation. Worse still, the incident took place just a few minutes' drive by car (2–3 minutes by ambulance with sirens) from Southampton University Hospital—a regional Major Trauma Centre equipped with a full team of specialists, procedures, and equipment. "I am convinced that if Henry had arrived there alive, the doctors would not have let him die"—writes Dr. Magier. In summary: the aggressive police intervention, instead of saving a life, led to death through improper handling of a severely injured person, even though world-class care was just minutes away. "I fear the Judge and pathologist were too lenient toward the police"—writes Dr. Magier.

Basgetti

Ilovecheese

I wonder can I ask Meandrogrog, what you think are the main problems this country has, and what you would like Nigel Farage to do, should he come to power?

Second this question. It’s all very well saying Reform is the UK’s only chance, but you need to spell out exactly why.

I wrote out a long post earlier!

Ilovecheese

I wonder can I ask Meandrogrog, what you think are the main problems this country has, and what you would like Nigel Farage to do, should he come to power?

Second this question. It’s all very well saying Reform is the UK’s only chance, but you need to spell out exactly why.

LemonJam

surfsup

Lemonjam

The 2 police officers arrived at the scene with the mindset that Henry had racially attacked Digwa. They had this mindset because Digwa's brother had made a 999 call stating this as fact and this information was passed onto the officers

You have had a lot to say on this so please be accurate in your posts. 4 officers attended. 3 cars on blue lights.

The police put out a statement last night saying 4 officers attended. One has resigned and the other 3 are still serving.

Why are you so intent on minimising the lack of care for Henry Nowak? The actions of those officers, especially the male was appalling, dismissive and cruel. On another post you said Henry wasn’t dragged across the gravel - yes he was. That officer in particular should be prosecuted in my opinion.

Surfsup- None of my posts have stated "Henry wasn't dragged across the gravel". Please be accurate and stop wrongfully accusing me.

The excerpt of my accurate post you quote was referring to the female and male officer that featured speaking in the body cam footage that was under discussion, ie the officer that handcuffed Henry and the female officer that checked his pupils.

The video cam was tragic to watch I certainly have not minimised the tragic circumstances.

Thank you Surfsup for your subsequent post admitting that I have not stated "Henry wasn't dragged across the gravel".

Lemonjam

This was what you said on 2/6. at 11:58.

The footage I have seen does not show the police manhandling Henry.

The male officer drags Henry along the ground. Maybe you didn’t notice that or the blood on the floor or on his white hands.

Yes we don't know the family dynamics, you're right.
They don't sound to be too healthy from my point of view.
Point taken.
Its all too easy to say "I'd do this, or that" wthout knowing

MissAdventure

I absolutely know I wouldn't.
100 percent.

No. I'm sure today that I wouldn't as me but I don't know if she knew it had been used.
And others have less freedom in their lives in the first place.

Primrose53

The Grandmother of the murderer has now spoken out and said he was a “difficult boy” and this has ruined both their family and Henry’s.

Apparently he and the other males in the family are Nihangs which is an ancient order of Sikhs who are skilled in using weapons to protect their faith. She says his Mother did what any mother would do for their son in removing the knife from the scene!! I don’t know any mother who would even consider doing that.

Yes the Grandmother said and I quote;
“He was a difficult boy but that’s not unusual for children born in Britain”.

I have no words.

I absolutely know I wouldn't.
100 percent.

I'd like to think I'd not take the knife away... but if your son pushed it at you and said "take this home" in the middle of all the drama???
And we don't know the family dynamics.

NOT making excuses for her.

I would turn in my son, never mind cover for him.

The Grandmother of the murderer has now spoken out and said he was a “difficult boy” and this has ruined both their family and Henry’s.

Apparently he and the other males in the family are Nihangs which is an ancient order of Sikhs who are skilled in using weapons to protect their faith. She says his Mother did what any mother would do for their son in removing the knife from the scene!! I don’t know any mother who would even consider doing that.

I’m more interested/worried in the current government. Burnham, Streeting in and Starmer/Reeves out? Better or worse? 3 months to wait?

MayBee70

Meandrogrog

MayBee70

Meandrogrog

MayBee70

Meandrogrog

Ilovecheese

I wonder can I ask Meandrogrog, what you think are the main problems this country has, and what you would like Nigel Farage to do, should he come to power?

You really dont know what problems this country has🤣🤣🤣 wow!

Well, I don’t know so could you tell me please.

Maybe for a change you could fill me in with what you think is so great?

Does it include a functional NHS with no waiting lists (I had to go privately with surgery which was classed as sub acute)

How do you feel about uncontrolled immigration? Do you think the UK has control over our borders, which all countries should have.

How do you think the UK is doing outside the EU? Apparently the EU countries are not doing so great, maybe you think we should be shackled again. What would the benefits be?

How do you feel about the Labour government? Do you think we should all be taxed more to fund benefit claimants as that is what this Government supports? Do you think this is a good thing?

How do you feel about the training that public services including the police receive which has led to what this post is about?

How about knife crime and drugs in major cities, how do you think our wonderful London Mayor is doing about these issues?

How about drugs infiltrating our primary schools?

What about teachers who just cannot hack it anymore?

I, and so many, are in despair about the state of our country.

In the south east we have over building of houses and a water shortage that has left whole areas without any water, yet still the building continues.

I hate this awful, rotten Government.

I don’t lose sleep or spend all my time worrying about immigration. And I never felt shackled by the EU. We have gained nothing by leaving. My daughter gave up teaching because of the Conservative government starving education of money. I was worried about knife crime when my kids were teenagers. It’s an ongoing problem that successive governments have failed to tackle; it isn’t just the current Labour governments fault. One thing I do know and that is a Reform government is not going to resolve any problems the country might have. I do think that people should pull together to make the country a better place instead of just moaning about it and blaming immigrants for everything.

Can I ask, how can you possibly ‘know’ that a Reform Government is not the answer until they have had a shot at governing? No one can know that.

I am sure you dont lose sleep worrying about illegal immigration but you did ask me what was wrong with this country and I was simply listing the various issues.

There are many issues around EU membership. I would have been happy to stay within a trading bloc if it had simply been that. When the referendum was held we could only go with how I felt. I was certainly not influenced by any politician, .i knew .i would vote to leave. I still feel the same. The UK is better for being independent.

You have your views, which I respect, and I have mine.

Can you tell me who will make up this Reform government? Eg who will be chancellor, foreign secretary etc? That’s very much an unknown isn’t it.

I have no idea and not sure if Reform know either! There are quite a few to choose from given the amount of seasoned politicians who have defected to Reform. The hope is that a Reform/Tory coalition could be formed. The real solution would be if all parties could form a government of the brightest and best for the good of the country.

Meandrogrog

MayBee70

Meandrogrog

MayBee70

Meandrogrog

Ilovecheese

I wonder can I ask Meandrogrog, what you think are the main problems this country has, and what you would like Nigel Farage to do, should he come to power?

You really dont know what problems this country has🤣🤣🤣 wow!

Well, I don’t know so could you tell me please.

Maybe for a change you could fill me in with what you think is so great?

Does it include a functional NHS with no waiting lists (I had to go privately with surgery which was classed as sub acute)

How do you feel about uncontrolled immigration? Do you think the UK has control over our borders, which all countries should have.

How do you think the UK is doing outside the EU? Apparently the EU countries are not doing so great, maybe you think we should be shackled again. What would the benefits be?

How do you feel about the Labour government? Do you think we should all be taxed more to fund benefit claimants as that is what this Government supports? Do you think this is a good thing?

How do you feel about the training that public services including the police receive which has led to what this post is about?

How about knife crime and drugs in major cities, how do you think our wonderful London Mayor is doing about these issues?

How about drugs infiltrating our primary schools?

What about teachers who just cannot hack it anymore?

I, and so many, are in despair about the state of our country.

In the south east we have over building of houses and a water shortage that has left whole areas without any water, yet still the building continues.

I hate this awful, rotten Government.

I don’t lose sleep or spend all my time worrying about immigration. And I never felt shackled by the EU. We have gained nothing by leaving. My daughter gave up teaching because of the Conservative government starving education of money. I was worried about knife crime when my kids were teenagers. It’s an ongoing problem that successive governments have failed to tackle; it isn’t just the current Labour governments fault. One thing I do know and that is a Reform government is not going to resolve any problems the country might have. I do think that people should pull together to make the country a better place instead of just moaning about it and blaming immigrants for everything.

Can I ask, how can you possibly ‘know’ that a Reform Government is not the answer until they have had a shot at governing? No one can know that.

I am sure you dont lose sleep worrying about illegal immigration but you did ask me what was wrong with this country and I was simply listing the various issues.

There are many issues around EU membership. I would have been happy to stay within a trading bloc if it had simply been that. When the referendum was held we could only go with how I felt. I was certainly not influenced by any politician, .i knew .i would vote to leave. I still feel the same. The UK is better for being independent.

You have your views, which I respect, and I have mine.

Can you tell me who will make up this Reform government? Eg who will be chancellor, foreign secretary etc? That’s very much an unknown isn’t it.

surfsup

Lemonjam

The 2 police officers arrived at the scene with the mindset that Henry had racially attacked Digwa. They had this mindset because Digwa's brother had made a 999 call stating this as fact and this information was passed onto the officers

You have had a lot to say on this so please be accurate in your posts. 4 officers attended. 3 cars on blue lights.

The police put out a statement last night saying 4 officers attended. One has resigned and the other 3 are still serving.

Why are you so intent on minimising the lack of care for Henry Nowak? The actions of those officers, especially the male was appalling, dismissive and cruel. On another post you said Henry wasn’t dragged across the gravel - yes he was. That officer in particular should be prosecuted in my opinion.

Surfsup- None of my posts have stated "Henry wasn't dragged across the gravel". Please be accurate and stop wrongfully accusing me.

The excerpt of my accurate post you quote was referring to the female and male officer that featured speaking in the body cam footage that was under discussion, ie the officer that handcuffed Henry and the female officer that checked his pupils.

The video cam was tragic to watch I certainly have not minimised the tragic circumstances.

MayBee70

Meandrogrog

MayBee70

Meandrogrog

Ilovecheese

I wonder can I ask Meandrogrog, what you think are the main problems this country has, and what you would like Nigel Farage to do, should he come to power?

You really dont know what problems this country has🤣🤣🤣 wow!

Well, I don’t know so could you tell me please.

Maybe for a change you could fill me in with what you think is so great?

Does it include a functional NHS with no waiting lists (I had to go privately with surgery which was classed as sub acute)

How do you feel about uncontrolled immigration? Do you think the UK has control over our borders, which all countries should have.

How do you think the UK is doing outside the EU? Apparently the EU countries are not doing so great, maybe you think we should be shackled again. What would the benefits be?

How do you feel about the Labour government? Do you think we should all be taxed more to fund benefit claimants as that is what this Government supports? Do you think this is a good thing?

How do you feel about the training that public services including the police receive which has led to what this post is about?

How about knife crime and drugs in major cities, how do you think our wonderful London Mayor is doing about these issues?

How about drugs infiltrating our primary schools?

What about teachers who just cannot hack it anymore?

I, and so many, are in despair about the state of our country.

In the south east we have over building of houses and a water shortage that has left whole areas without any water, yet still the building continues.

I hate this awful, rotten Government.

I don’t lose sleep or spend all my time worrying about immigration. And I never felt shackled by the EU. We have gained nothing by leaving. My daughter gave up teaching because of the Conservative government starving education of money. I was worried about knife crime when my kids were teenagers. It’s an ongoing problem that successive governments have failed to tackle; it isn’t just the current Labour governments fault. One thing I do know and that is a Reform government is not going to resolve any problems the country might have. I do think that people should pull together to make the country a better place instead of just moaning about it and blaming immigrants for everything.

Can I ask, how can you possibly ‘know’ that a Reform Government is not the answer until they have had a shot at governing? No one can know that.

I am sure you dont lose sleep worrying about illegal immigration but you did ask me what was wrong with this country and I was simply listing the various issues.

There are many issues around EU membership. I would have been happy to stay within a trading bloc if it had simply been that. When the referendum was held we could only go with how I felt. I was certainly not influenced by any politician, .i knew .i would vote to leave. I still feel the same. The UK is better for being independent.

You have your views, which I respect, and I have mine.

Meandrogrog

MayBee70

Meandrogrog

Ilovecheese

I wonder can I ask Meandrogrog, what you think are the main problems this country has, and what you would like Nigel Farage to do, should he come to power?

You really dont know what problems this country has🤣🤣🤣 wow!

Well, I don’t know so could you tell me please.

Maybe for a change you could fill me in with what you think is so great?

Does it include a functional NHS with no waiting lists (I had to go privately with surgery which was classed as sub acute)

How do you feel about uncontrolled immigration? Do you think the UK has control over our borders, which all countries should have.

How do you think the UK is doing outside the EU? Apparently the EU countries are not doing so great, maybe you think we should be shackled again. What would the benefits be?

How do you feel about the Labour government? Do you think we should all be taxed more to fund benefit claimants as that is what this Government supports? Do you think this is a good thing?

How do you feel about the training that public services including the police receive which has led to what this post is about?

How about knife crime and drugs in major cities, how do you think our wonderful London Mayor is doing about these issues?

How about drugs infiltrating our primary schools?

What about teachers who just cannot hack it anymore?

I, and so many, are in despair about the state of our country.

In the south east we have over building of houses and a water shortage that has left whole areas without any water, yet still the building continues.

I hate this awful, rotten Government.

I don’t lose sleep or spend all my time worrying about immigration. And I never felt shackled by the EU. We have gained nothing by leaving. My daughter gave up teaching because of the Conservative government starving education of money. I was worried about knife crime when my kids were teenagers. It’s an ongoing problem that successive governments have failed to tackle; it isn’t just the current Labour governments fault. One thing I do know and that is a Reform government is not going to resolve any problems the country might have. I do think that people should pull together to make the country a better place instead of just moaning about it and blaming immigrants for everything.

Meandrogog we did live in France, but came back in 2018, the health system was struggling then, particularly in rural areas.
From speaking to friends who still live there there are struggles with qualified personnel, an ageing population with increasing health needs and the increasing cost to the government.
They subsidise the cost, 325 billion per year the last figures.
There are waiting lists and some people, still rightly or not registered in the UK fly back for treatment.

Betony

Kandinsky

I’m really not sure why this particular case of a random murder should be the cause of outrage

I’m actually shocked at this casual reply.

Me too, Kandinsky. The policeman answering poor Henry's plea: 'I have been stabbed' with 'I don't think you have, mate' is one of the cruellest and most biased things I've ever heard.

It is just horrible isn’t it Betony and I am sure will remain in our minds for ever more.

It also reminds me of how today’s police want to be everybody’s “mate” and choose to dress up and dance and paint their cars in rainbow colours. The line has well and truly been blurred and not for the better.

Kandinsky

*I’m really not sure why this particular case of a random murder should be the cause of outrage*

I’m actually shocked at this casual reply.

Me too, Kandinsky. The policeman answering poor Henry's plea: 'I have been stabbed' with 'I don't think you have, mate' is one of the cruellest and most biased things I've ever heard.

MaizieD

I do understand your frustration with the current state of the UK, Meandrogog but I'm afraid that a substantial number of the things you complain about are the result of cuts to public services by the tories ever since Thatcher came to power in 1979. Made worse by the 'austerity' implemented by Osborne, tory chancellor from 2010.

I really do not understand how you can expect public services to run effectively if they are kept extremely short of money.

So, police, the NHS, education, justice, social care, council services, all short of money.

Privatisation of water, where the water company's profit went t mainly to shareholders with little investment in infrastructure? Thank the tories.

I had to laugh about the NHS, Farage is on record as wanting to implement the US insurance system. If you're not insured health care costs a fortune...

Small boats? Blossomed under the tories because leaving the EU meant we lost the Dublin agreement where we could return some asylum seekers...

I am highly critical of the current government but I didn't seriously expect them to put everything right overnight and I certainly don't blame them for problems caused by previous governments.

Thank you for your reasoned response.

Can I just add, what in your opinion, is the solution to the NHS. I feel that the service is just too stretched and the demands too much. France seems to have a better system, apparently healthcare is excellent, it is private but the costs are not extortionate. That is my understanding, and I wonder if this may be the way forward here as well? If anyone on here lives in France it would be interesting to hear views on this.

On another post on this forum concerning illegal immigration, apparently although in theory the UK could make returns, in practice this seldom happened so it availed us nothing by leaving the EU.

I do agree with your comment about privatisation of the water companies, and privatisation of trains etc also.i

I know the issues go back through successive governments. We need a strong PM, and it cant hurt to give Reform a chance, given the dismal performance so far?

REKA

We can always blame previous governments. We've always done it. It's pointless

Really!

So everything was hunky dory until 2 years ago when Labour took over the government?

Jaxjacky

Meandrogrog

Jaxjacky

Meandrogrog I suggest you may wish to move to another country if you find it so bad.

What is wrong with trying to address the issues here by voting Reform.

Thank you for your glib response.

Obviously nothing, I respect your gullibility.

As opposed to yourself who so clearly is not gullible at all!

How I wish I had your clearsightedness and superior understanding.

Please could you re-educate me as to who
I should vote for and why.!