Henry Nowak…….an absolute tragedy.

LemonJam

I can't speak for anyone else- but I feel it would be better to tone down all the speculation and just wait for the IOPC report and the Inquest Jury decision- a process in which the family will be involved.

Better for Henry's family, in line with their wishes- and better for the safety of people in Southampton.

I completely agree.

There’s one person to blame for this completely out of control murder.

It’s not the police, who handled this badly and made errors, but who were acting on what they felt was accurate intel from the brother and the perpetrator, it’s not the victim, it’s not Sikhs in general and it’s certainly not the PM.

Anyone, either here or on any other media site, who is attempting to use this horrific and tragic murder to further express their utter contempt towards our police and our PM, or to speculate on whether Henry could/should have been saved if the police had acted differently should 1) feel utter shame, 2) wait for the full results of the inquiry and autopsy and 3) take a leaf out of Henry’s family’s book and take a calm step back and behave with the same respect for Henry as they are!

Luckygirl3

Foxie48 ... agree.

I think that police recruits now have the issue of racism and the need to be even handed stressed so firmly in their training that it has become a huge consideration in every situation they are presented with. They are falling over themselves to make sure they do not behave in a racist fashion.
Clearly this is a good thing and a necessary antidote to some of the appalling practices that have gone before. It may be however that in this particular case it blinded them to what was really going on.
I have a great deal of sympathy with police trying to make on the spot assessments when walking into an unknown situation.
But clearly something went badly wrong on this occasion. I am particularly disturbed by some of the things that one officer is reported to have said to the victim, e.g. "I don't think so mate."
This unfortunate and dreadful occurrence needs dealing with firmly but thoughtfully and the old "lessons will be learned" mantra brought into play via a proper investigation. What it does not need is that vacuous self-serving moral-free zone Farage wading in with comments that incite discord and violence and are potentially prosecutable.

Good comments Luckygirl3

Without speculation, at least on gransnet, (assuming we are representative of the rest of the uk)
those who have questioned the handling of this case would have been immediately silenced as vile racists, and would have not dared to go "against the grain".
We would be almost forced to accept that the police attended a chaotic scene, were brand new recruits, (debatable) that they did not ignore Henry's plight, that there was nothing to suggest that he may have been in serious trouble, physically, that only Tommy Robinson and Farage have spoken out about the issues, and that the whole incident was of no more import than any other murders.

Maremia

Oreo, that is your opinion of Starmer. Happens I don't agree, and that is fair enough. Each entitled to express how we feel,
but
at least Starmer turns up,
at least he stopped us from joining in Trump's illegal war,
and doesn't take millions of pounds from foreigners.

It would help if you had quoted my post.
Was it the one where I hoped that Andy Burnham would inject some vision and passion into any future PM ship or the one where I say that Starmer has given an all round woeful performance? In any case my remarks have nothing to do with either Farage or Reform.

foxie48

I'm amazed that anyone wants to be a policeman these days. In most jobs you make a mistake, learn from it and become better at what you do. In policing, if you make a dreadful mistake you get publicly derided and there are always people wanting to make political capital out of it. I don't think there's "two tier policing". I think in the past there has been a great deal of racism and misogyny in the police force. I speak from experience as I was married to a policeman for 13 years and I saw it at close hand. Thankfully, most new recruits, if they represent the sort of younger people I know, are neither racist nor misogynistic but they make mistakes and clearly pay a very high price for that. The murder of Henry Nowak is a dreadful thing, his treatment was totally inappropriate and I'm sure everyone involved on that night wishes they had behaved differently. I think there are lessons to be learned BUT to make the connection that Farage did and say what Farage said is, IMO, unforgivable because it was divisive and I don't want a divisive politician making the laws in the country I belong to and live in.

Thank you and entirely agree.

Foxie48 ... agree.

I think that police recruits now have the issue of racism and the need to be even handed stressed so firmly in their training that it has become a huge consideration in every situation they are presented with. They are falling over themselves to make sure they do not behave in a racist fashion.
Clearly this is a good thing and a necessary antidote to some of the appalling practices that have gone before. It may be however that in this particular case it blinded them to what was really going on.
I have a great deal of sympathy with police trying to make on the spot assessments when walking into an unknown situation.
But clearly something went badly wrong on this occasion. I am particularly disturbed by some of the things that one officer is reported to have said to the victim, e.g. "I don't think so mate."
This unfortunate and dreadful occurrence needs dealing with firmly but thoughtfully and the old "lessons will be learned" mantra brought into play via a proper investigation. What it does not need is that vacuous self-serving moral-free zone Farage wading in with comments that incite discord and violence and are potentially prosecutable.

Foxie 👍

I think those two police officers have received death threats so I doubt they will be out on the beat. Probably desk bound I would think.

If the police involved in this are still on the beat, I’d be concerned if they hadn’t discussed where it all went wrong so it wouldn’t happen again. I thought the police officers were in hiding?

There have been multiple threads on GN highlighting the downfalls of the police, in particular the Met, just saying…

Well yes but we have 10 years of people describing the police as institutionally racist, sexist etc, I am not sure how particularly helpful that has been. I am sure I myself will have talked about it in the past. There was considerable commenting ( unfavourably) on here about the way in which the police recently responded to an anti semitic attack. Online analysis of police behaviour isn't anything new.

LemonJam

I hear your POV Oreo but surfsup posted this: I fear the Judge and pathologist were too lenient toward the police—writes Dr. Magier.

Such highly speculative opinion undermined by independent qualified forensic pathologists, audited and scrutinised and tested by Crown Court cross examination be very triggering for some- in a bad way.

This is why the police have asked for people to stop speculating as it can prejudice the case.
Saying that those police involved should lose their jobs even before an enquiry is not helpful.

foxie 👏 👏 👏

Oreo, that is your opinion of Starmer. Happens I don't agree, and that is fair enough. Each entitled to express how we feel,
but
at least Starmer turns up,
at least he stopped us from joining in Trump's illegal war,
and doesn't take millions of pounds from foreigners.

Good post foxie

foxie48 fully agree.

foxie48 hear, hear👏👏👏

Well said, foxie.

I'm amazed that anyone wants to be a policeman these days. In most jobs you make a mistake, learn from it and become better at what you do. In policing, if you make a dreadful mistake you get publicly derided and there are always people wanting to make political capital out of it. I don't think there's "two tier policing". I think in the past there has been a great deal of racism and misogyny in the police force. I speak from experience as I was married to a policeman for 13 years and I saw it at close hand. Thankfully, most new recruits, if they represent the sort of younger people I know, are neither racist nor misogynistic but they make mistakes and clearly pay a very high price for that. The murder of Henry Nowak is a dreadful thing, his treatment was totally inappropriate and I'm sure everyone involved on that night wishes they had behaved differently. I think there are lessons to be learned BUT to make the connection that Farage did and say what Farage said is, IMO, unforgivable because it was divisive and I don't want a divisive politician making the laws in the country I belong to and live in.

There has been a request for the inquest to be brought forward, which might provide more accurate information.

I hear your POV Oreo but surfsup posted this: I fear the Judge and pathologist were too lenient toward the police—writes Dr. Magier.

Such highly speculative opinion undermined by independent qualified forensic pathologists, audited and scrutinised and tested by Crown Court cross examination be very triggering for some- in a bad way.

LemonJam

I can't speak for anyone else- but I feel it would be better to tone down all the speculation and just wait for the IOPC report and the Inquest Jury decision- a process in which the family will be involved.

Better for Henry's family, in line with their wishes- and better for the safety of people in Southampton.

I have some sympathy for your point of view, but I think this case has highlighted in all its tragedy the mistakes made by police when political ideology takes over common sense policing.

Boz

MayBee70

Oreo

Meandrogrog

Basgetti

Ilovecheese

I wonder can I ask Meandrogrog, what you think are the main problems this country has, and what you would like Nigel Farage to do, should he come to power?

Second this question. It’s all very well saying Reform is the UK’s only chance, but you need to spell out exactly why.

I wrote out a long post earlier!

Actually no poster need to spell anything out for the benefit of another poster.
I think at this point many people are saying to themselves ‘could Reform be any worse than this particular Labour government’.
The only thing that could save Labour now is if Andy Burnham wins the Makerfield by-election and then wins the PM position and then electrifies the Party by showing vision and passion.

So what vision do Reform have apart from xenophobia and racism?

No vision needed, just the tools to beat Labour.

There can be problems with the "just beat the other lot" approach though. I think Starmer discovered this when his
party won the last election.
His focus was entirely on beating the Conservatives ( with a side dish of neutering his left wing m.p. and membership) . Now that he has won, his critics are asking what was his vision for the country? Did he have a plan?
Don't Reform voters want to know what the plans are?

Maremia

And then we get a PM with very little experience of doing the 'day job' if and when he bothers to attend.
No thanks

Keir Starmer had plenty of political experience ( albeit not in the hot chair) and then look at his woeful performance once that he was in it!

I can't speak for anyone else- but I feel it would be better to tone down all the speculation and just wait for the IOPC report and the Inquest Jury decision- a process in which the family will be involved.

Better for Henry's family, in line with their wishes- and better for the safety of people in Southampton.