Where is the balance and how can we live respectfully with difference? Radical feminist (TERF) beliefs versus transgender beliefs.

*only female.

Doodledog

Oh, and I absolutely do object to men and boys joining women's organisations. There are women who for various reasons don't want to be in situations where men are present, and there are plenty of organisations that cater for mixed sex groups.

I would not have been at all happy for my 13 year old daughter to go to Guide camp with boys in the tent, and if Gary decided to call himself Gladys it would not have made any difference to my objections.

Yet both our DD joined the beavers, cubs and scouts and happily shared dorms and rents when in beavers and cubs. In Scouts, when eldest DD was the o my female, she slept in a tent alone and hated it!

I think gender is a social contract and frequently damaging for men and women, it is mostly a list of stereotypes. Peopke of course can present how they like, this has no impact on how single sex spaces should be organised.

Whitewave you started a thread not so long ago about your concerns about what had been done to children in terms of transitioning. Have you now changed your mind.

People should be able to live their lives in peace, it doesn’t matter one fig to me if they are gay, straight, trans gender or choose to live their (adult) life as something else entirely.

So long as they are good, honest, kind and law abiding people, I couldn’t care less.

I respect other people’s rights to hold their own views and to express them, but I don’t condone discrimination of any types and so long as trans gender “rights” don’t overrule or overthrow biological female rights and safety, I’m OK with this too.

Biological sex and gender are two entirely different things.

Nobody can change the biological sex they were born in. They can, and should, be able to “adopt” a different gender and happily live their lives this way.

According to the 2021 census there are approx. 262k or 0.08% per 10000 people identifying with some sort of body dysmorphia. This will include all trans people both male and female as well as those with body dysmorphia who have not transitioned - who indeed may never do so and in fact later identify as their birth sex.

This issue has, as been argued been blown out of all sense, and to read some of the posts I can’t imagine a single community that has the level of issues you are claiming.

Yes, sex is frequently about power, nothing new in that.

And please don’t patronise us by giving a lecture on sexual orientation, trans etc. you really are teaching your grandmother etc.

I have no doubt that this is a cultural issue that will resolve over time, just as homosexuality did. Indeed I am old enough to remember openly illegal gay scenes before 1967 - to the horror of many in the community - claiming all sorts of dire consequences. Never happened did it?

I have a friend whose daughter has throughout her mid-late teenage years suffered body dysmorphia and identified as a young man, not a single person I knew made an issue of this, everyone accepted her decision and addressed her as male etc. using the appropriate pronoun although I always get muddled with “them” 😊. That young person has now reached the decision to identify as her birth sex and does so. I am certain that she would have identified as transitioning in the 2021 census. So these figures will be inaccurate I think.

I am also old enough to remember when the woman’s scene was wise enough to openly embrace difference and not other.

What happened to that wisdom?

It is in fact those who claim men are women who are homphobic. If you support a movement that has ensured lesbians have to go to court so they can organise without men, you are embracing homophobia.

Like you, Galaxy I feel as though we’ve stepped back in time. Please will people stop conflating transpeople with gay people? Sexual orientation and so-called ‘gender’ are very different things. Not all gay men are ‘feminine’, and transgenders is not an extension of gayness.

Homosexuality is about sexual orientation (ie sexual attraction to people of one’s own sex) and ‘transgender’ people, like the rest of us, can be gay, bi or straight.

Many transwomen are heterosexual men, which is why many women don’t want them in spaces where we are vulnerable or in states of undress. Some even claim to be lesbian (ie a transwoman who fancies women), and get angry when an actual lesbian (very specifically a woman who does not fancy men) refuses to have sex with them. Transwoman have gatecrashed lesbian speed dating events - reminiscent of the ‘she just needs a good seeing to’ views of old. Much of this is about power, not sexuality, and homophobia has nothing to do with it.

Objecting to transwomen in our spaces is not homophobic- it is objecting to transwomen in our spaces.

As of 2026, transgender women in England and Wales will not be placed in female prisons if they have repainted (retained) male genitalia or have been convicted of any violent or sexual offences.
Who made this decision? I thought transgender women, that is biological men, were sent to male prisons following disturbances where transgender females insisted on residence in female prisons.
Someone commented on 'people who believe in biological sex.' It is a fact, not a belief.
Far too much time wasted on the supposed rights of a tiny but very vocal minority.

Now, that doesn't mean that the staff couldn't be sensitive in dealing with that person..

Be sensitive to the convicted paedophile from a high-security men's prison, who was 6 feet tall, appeared masculine, and had to be shackled by two prison officers because he was so violent??? He should have been treated with as much sensitivity, dignity, respect and kindness as he afforded the children he sexually assaulted. Added to that, he is a racist, violent, misogynistic thug. And you seriously think he should have been treated sensitively because he thinks he's a laydeee now?

Indeed we must always prioritise the feelings of a paedophile above those of his victims. I can't begin to imagine how his victims will ever trust adults again and then for them to hear other adults lying about who he is. Just unspeakable.

Wyllow3

Now, that doesn't mean that the staff couldn't be sensitive in dealing with that person..

Absolutely.

Indeed twaddle being called hysterical, insecure, far right, we have heard it all before. I think most gender critical feminists just laugh now.

paddyann54

As someone who personally knows several trans folk ,all without exception living the life they always felt they should ,I too think the issue caused by a small minority has been ramped up by media and for political gain
My experience of these people is that they love under the radar ,have responsible jobs ,volunteer raise children and have no intention of harming anyone
I just wish those who are stuck in the past could see the good folk I see and realise transitioning is not a new thing…it was just a hidden state like homosexuality was .
Sad that we need to show our insecurities by bringing other people down.

I support your opinions paddyann54.

Galaxy

Good grief. This thread is like being back in 2016 again. Am afraid this stuff just has no impact anymore. We are hysterical, insecure, etc. Surely someone is going to pop on and say we are funded by the far right.

That's just ridiculous!

Whitewavemark2

Syracute

The transgender population is such a small tiny part of the population. These threats and dangers inferred are so overblown. They are used for political gains over and over.
This hatred that is fomented endangers their lives and existence.
I follow a few transgender people on social media. More people should so they can have more empathy and gain understanding to their very real struggles.

Yes.

This is where I am in complete agreement.

I live in a part of the country which has traditionally always had a larger than average gay population, and everything in between.

I have always had gay friends and known a very few people who have transitioned.

I lived here from a teenager, until now - I nor friends or family have never, ever experienced or reported the sort of criminal act that is being talked about on these threads.

That is not to say that it doesn’t exist - of course it does and one assumes it is dealt with just as all sexual crime is dealt with. But like syracute I think it is totally overblown, and almost certainly for political reasons. . I have attempted to get the figures for the sort of criminal act being describing - of women being attacked by transitional people in a single sex space and keep being told that the % level is too small to be significant.

There are however other areas relating to transitional people like sport participation that I may accept that fairness is a factor and so must and is addressed in many sports.

As a general rule I am against division and othering in whatever form it takes. There are clearly issues that need addressing but it must be remembered that transitional people experience huge emotional and physical upheaval in their life, and as has been said a bit of empathy and less hostility is sorely needed.

I am in agreement with both Syracuse and Whitewavemark2.

Good grief. This thread is like being back in 2016 again. Am afraid this stuff just has no impact anymore. We are hysterical, insecure, etc. Surely someone is going to pop on and say we are funded by the far right.

As someone who personally knows several trans folk ,all without exception living the life they always felt they should ,I too think the issue caused by a small minority has been ramped up by media and for political gain
My experience of these people is that they love under the radar ,have responsible jobs ,volunteer raise children and have no intention of harming anyone
I just wish those who are stuck in the past could see the good folk I see and realise transitioning is not a new thing…it was just a hidden state like homosexuality was .
Sad that we need to show our insecurities by bringing other people down.

Syracute

The transgender population is such a small tiny part of the population. These threats and dangers inferred are so overblown. They are used for political gains over and over.
This hatred that is fomented endangers their lives and existence.
I follow a few transgender people on social media. More people should so they can have more empathy and gain understanding to their very real struggles.

Yes.

This is where I am in complete agreement.

I live in a part of the country which has traditionally always had a larger than average gay population, and everything in between.

I have always had gay friends and known a very few people who have transitioned.

I lived here from a teenager, until now - I nor friends or family have never, ever experienced or reported the sort of criminal act that is being talked about on these threads.

That is not to say that it doesn’t exist - of course it does and one assumes it is dealt with just as all sexual crime is dealt with. But like syracute I think it is totally overblown, and almost certainly for political reasons. . I have attempted to get the figures for the sort of criminal act being describing - of women being attacked by transitional people in a single sex space and keep being told that the % level is too small to be significant.

There are however other areas relating to transitional people like sport participation that I may accept that fairness is a factor and so must and is addressed in many sports.

As a general rule I am against division and othering in whatever form it takes. There are clearly issues that need addressing but it must be remembered that transitional people experience huge emotional and physical upheaval in their life, and as has been said a bit of empathy and less hostility is sorely needed.

I wonder how sensitive his victims and their families think it is when they hear people calling him a woman. Personally I think anyone who does that is causing further harm to those children.

Now, that doesn't mean that the staff couldn't be sensitive in dealing with that person..

Ilovecheese

There are a few different versions of what happened with the nurse and the prisoner. I don't suppose anyone really knows the sequence of events by now.

The patient was brought to the hospital in restraints for a urinary infection requiring a catheter.Melle referred to the patient as "he" and "Mr." when discussing the medical procedure with a doctor.

Because the catheter was in the male's penis.

Cardamom

^Must not misgender or deadname transgender patients.^ but she just has to suck up the racism and insults to her religion? In addition to being a fully trained, experienced nurse who can clinically recognise that a cocktail and balls is always found on a male?

So basically, the kiddy fiddling, racist,misogynistic, paedophile possibly got a good telling off and maybe a few extra days eating porridge but the nurse, who could tell that the patient was a male because of his penis and balls, got a jolly good telling off, a final written warning and a referral to her governing body?

Like I said, remind me again what it is you want about respect and acceptance.

The world is changing! We must keep up!

Apparently
Melle was in fact aware the patient was transgender but she did not acknowledge this in her patient care. She saw that the patients record detailed biological male genitalia and the patient was under the care of urology.
The patient was a man and required treatment appropriate to a male person.

During a discussion regarding a catheter, Melle used male pronouns to the patient and referred to the patient as "MR". This resulted in the patient making racist remarks towards her.
There was no excuse for the patient to make the dreadful racist remarks that he did.

Melle stated to the hospital management at the time she could not use female pronouns due to her christian faith
And surely because of her medical knowledge combined with plain common sense.
Dealing with urological problems in a male person differs from dealing with those of a female.

The NHS operates to different rules, Cardomom
Correct anatomical science is secondary to the hurt feelings of a man who claims to be a woman. .

Why should we worry about male violence, after all we have been told on this thread that most men are fine. It is perfectly safe for women to be naked around men, no issues whatsoever, and anyone who objects is hysterical ( ticks misogyny bingo card). And as for consent that isn't important either, after all some women are fine with it all, so the consent of other women is irrelevant.

The transgender population is such a small tiny part of the population. These threats and dangers inferred are so overblown. They are used for political gains over and over.
This hatred that is fomented endangers their lives and existence.
I follow a few transgender people on social media. More people should so they can have more empathy and gain understanding to their very real struggles.