Racist rapist of Sikh woman in Walsall

petra

Many victims and campaigners will not be attending the latest enquiry because they know that race and ethnicity will not be properly investigated.
Back to square one 😥 It come to something when Maggi Oliver is protesting on the remit of the enquiry.
The only people that will be happy are the lawyers 🤬

However, the issue of race and ethnicity concerns the way in which the offences were investigated by the police and social services not the appalling behaviour of the grooming gangs. I think this is frequently misunderstood.

Many victims and campaigners will not be attending the latest enquiry because they know that race and ethnicity will not be properly investigated.
Back to square one 😥 It come to something when Maggi Oliver is protesting on the remit of the enquiry.
The only people that will be happy are the lawyers 🤬

I think there's a lot of confusion going on here. The grooming gangs and the violent rapist in Walsall will have had completely different charges because they are not accused of the same offences. The "racism" element of the JA offence is covered under "aggravated religious attack". The grooming gangs will have been guilty of "trafficking" as well as rape but there wasn't a "racist" charge because frankly their behaviour was not "racist" under current legislation. They picked on vulnerable children and although most were white it was their vulnerability that made them a target. fwiw not all of the children were white, hence my comment about making the cases all about racism, because they were not.

sundowngirl

twaddle

Did the Muslim men use racist insults? It's up to the law to decide whether those rapes were racist. As far as I know, racism didn't form part of the charge. The rapist picked on this young woman specifically because he thought she was Muslim (we know now she isn't).

You seem more concerned in making the case for your "side" to get justice rather than showing any sympathy for the victim in Walsall or discussing what kind of monster does this. I find it impossible to understand what is going on inside his head.

What a ridiculous statement! Of course I sympathise with this poor lady, it was the most despicable crime by this monster and I can’t even imagine what she went through. I’m certainly not point scoring or making a case for my ‘side’.

The Muslim gang rapists frequently called their victims ‘white trash’ I would call these racist remarks and they specifically targeted non Muslim girls.

Why can you not see that both crimes are equally disgusting and horrific for the victims and should be treated similarly in law

I do see it.

We need better alternatives to custody for recidivists who pose little threat to the general public. We need our previously excellent Probation Service returned to public ownership. To get on to the two year Certificate of Qualification in Social Work as a Probation student, you had to be at least 25, had experience of similar work / volunteered with Probation and have a relevant degree or two A levels and good results from IQ tests
It was valued, challenging, interesting work. Meaningful case loads and huge efforts into establishing alternatives to prison. We also didn’t have the extent of drug/alcohol dependency and effective services to support users

Prisons should be used for dangerous offenders, including domestic, sexual, violently, organised crime gangs and those who refuse to cooperate with parole etc

The most significant factor in sex offenders/domestic is they’re almost always men. Race, faith, belief systems need more research. But being male doesn’t, it’s staring us in the face

More prisons are needed, so get on and build more, the answer isn’t for prisoners to only serve a bit of any sentence to make room for others.

sundowngirl

twaddle

Did the Muslim men use racist insults? It's up to the law to decide whether those rapes were racist. As far as I know, racism didn't form part of the charge. The rapist picked on this young woman specifically because he thought she was Muslim (we know now she isn't).

You seem more concerned in making the case for your "side" to get justice rather than showing any sympathy for the victim in Walsall or discussing what kind of monster does this. I find it impossible to understand what is going on inside his head.

What a ridiculous statement! Of course I sympathise with this poor lady, it was the most despicable crime by this monster and I can’t even imagine what she went through. I’m certainly not point scoring or making a case for my ‘side’.

The Muslim gang rapists frequently called their victims ‘white trash’ I would call these racist remarks and they specifically targeted non Muslim girls.

Why can you not see that both crimes are equally disgusting and horrific for the victims and should be treated similarly in law

Some people, surprisingly even women, don’t like any mention of grooming gangs!
Any rape for whatever reason, is appalling and leaves terrible memories for the victims.

Yes.
My Dad was a probation officer.

He had time to properly spend with people. They were actually classed as civil servants then.

He was fed up with some, who couldn't and wouldn't try and change their ways, or were basically bad people, somehow he didn't become disillusioned but he ^ did^ help others change their ways.

He didn't start until his 40's, and was something of a father figure to some young offenders who had no decent role models.

It's tragic what has happened to the service.

Cossy

I agree, this is an awful crime and I believe this man will always be a danger to women, so for the safety of woman he should be kicked away for a very very long time.

I don’t think prison should be abolished, but I do think prisons and sentencing needs review and reform.

What I’d like to see is better and more probation officers (not private companies either), all following the same training and more standardised procedures.

I would like to see more residential drug and alcohol units and those convicted of crimes around these areas, ie low level dealing, possession etc put into these units for complete addiction rehab.

I’d also not imprison any non violent crimes. I’d like to see reparation sentences and community services (or unpaid work as it seems to be called now)

I’d like to see all proven proceeds of crime confiscated and large fines imposed on those who have made a co good living from crime.

I’d like to see everyone who’s been involved in child abuse, sexual or violent or fatalities locked away forever.

I’d put more prison officers into prisons and I’d want to see every prisoner working for a large proportion of their days, with decent accommodation and food and earning any privileges, which would automatically be removed should they abuse the system or break the rules.

I’d make outside in the open air and exercise compulsory and a massive crackdown on the alcohol and drugs which seems to be smuggled in on a daily basis.

Our prison and sentencing system just doesn’t work and too many criminals re-offend at all levels of crime.

People would be alive today had violent criminals not been released.

This 100%

twaddle

Did the Muslim men use racist insults? It's up to the law to decide whether those rapes were racist. As far as I know, racism didn't form part of the charge. The rapist picked on this young woman specifically because he thought she was Muslim (we know now she isn't).

You seem more concerned in making the case for your "side" to get justice rather than showing any sympathy for the victim in Walsall or discussing what kind of monster does this. I find it impossible to understand what is going on inside his head.

What a ridiculous statement! Of course I sympathise with this poor lady, it was the most despicable crime by this monster and I can’t even imagine what she went through. I’m certainly not point scoring or making a case for my ‘side’.

The Muslim gang rapists frequently called their victims ‘white trash’ I would call these racist remarks and they specifically targeted non Muslim girls.

Why can you not see that both crimes are equally disgusting and horrific for the victims and should be treated similarly in law

John Ashby was racially motivated when he attacked and raped his female Sikh victim. He did not hide his hatred of women in court, or his hatred of muslims. Previously on line Ashby had posted videos on Youtube of himself rapping "I'd fight any bitch, don't give a fuck...".etc etc. His online uploads included clips of him listening to manosphere- adjacent motivational messages, including from Andrew Tate. During his rape Ashby called his victim "a fucking muslim bitch", "dirty" and described himself as "the master" exhorting his victims to repeat that he was a "master" and she was a "bitch". The woman's ordeal was prolonged.

In police custody Ashby bemoaned the fact of not seeing enough "Englishmen" in his part of Birmingham, he bemoaned the woman was not wearing a hijab, even though she had told him during his rape attack she was Sikh. The saddest thing I read was that the woman had felt unable and shamed to tell her family of her ordeal and that remains the case.

Racism is an issue as Ashby was motivated by his racial hatred. Yet all rapists, regardless of their skin colour degrade and harm their female victims and are/should be treated equally in the eyes of the law at every stage of the police and judicial process.

I agree with Cossy that prisons shouldn't be abolished and it is the right place for Ashby- in order to protect women. The judge said he must serve his fill life term. I agree with her other suggestions also.

However, there also needs to be more consideration of all ways to try to prevent racism, prevent misogyny, prevent hatred of other religions and how to diminish the power of toxic manosphere on line influencers, such as Andrew Tate.

It is totally beyond me why anyone would want to turn this post into one about race

Of course it's about race! The whole point of the appalling attack was because this vile specimen of a man thought (erroneously) that the woman was Muslim.

Did the Muslim men use racist insults? It's up to the law to decide whether those rapes were racist. As far as I know, racism didn't form part of the charge. The rapist picked on this young woman specifically because he thought she was Muslim (we know now she isn't).

You seem more concerned in making the case for your "side" to get justice rather than showing any sympathy for the victim in Walsall or discussing what kind of monster does this. I find it impossible to understand what is going on inside his head.

twaddle

Primrose53

sundowngirl

A just sentence for an appalling crime, but we need life to mean life
Let’s hope the three disgusting asylum seekers who raped the girl on Brighton beach and filmed themselves doing it, get similar sentences

Don’t hold your breath sundowngirl!

This is another example of two tier sentencing. It was a disgusting crime and he is a complete animal BUT so were the hundreds of Asian grooming gang members and some of them are out of prison already after very light sentences.

Remember too, not only did they rape these girls but they drugged them, got some pregnant, physically and mentally abused them and called them “white trash”. This went on for months and years not just a horrific one off. No sentence is long enough for those vile men either.

Are you saying it's unfair that this man has been given a life sentence just because he's white British?

What Primrose53 and I are trying to say that both crimes are racist and should be treated as such and similar sentences should be given to each perpetrator. Sadly this is often not the case. The muslim gangs only targeted non muslim girls and therefore these were also racist attacks.

The term 'racist' should be applicable both ways

This poor woman now has a life sentence of recurring memories of her ordeal.
I hope that the parole board remember that when his case comes up for review.

twaddle

Primrose53

sundowngirl

A just sentence for an appalling crime, but we need life to mean life
Let’s hope the three disgusting asylum seekers who raped the girl on Brighton beach and filmed themselves doing it, get similar sentences

Don’t hold your breath sundowngirl!

This is another example of two tier sentencing. It was a disgusting crime and he is a complete animal BUT so were the hundreds of Asian grooming gang members and some of them are out of prison already after very light sentences.

Remember too, not only did they rape these girls but they drugged them, got some pregnant, physically and mentally abused them and called them “white trash”. This went on for months and years not just a horrific one off. No sentence is long enough for those vile men either.

Are you saying it's unfair that this man has been given a life sentence just because he's white British?

No I’m not saying that. He deserves a life sentence as do all the grooming gang members and life should mean life. None of them should be released early either.

www.standard.co.uk/comment/grooming-gangs-britain-prison-early-release-b1203647.html

Allira

What a disgusting specimen he is.

A minimum sentence of 14 years is nothing although, of course, he may not be released after that time.
Why are these short sentences known as 'life sentences'.

If he says he regrets his past, has reformed and will live a good life in future, members of a Parole Board may believe him and he could be released on licence.

Life should mean life. He has destroyed this woman's life.

I agree with you.

HAs anybody got a link to the judge's sentencing comments?

foxie48

It is totally beyond me why anyone would want to turn this post into one about race. Do we have a hierachy of evil in this country? Is it less evil for a black or brown woman to be raped than a white woman? Are black or brown rapists more evil than white rapists? Is the difference in colour or religion of a rapist and his victim relevant? Surely not! Well at least in my world they are not. They are all either perpetrators or victims regardless of colour, race or religion.

The rapist used Islamophobic insults when he was raping her. Although she is Sikh, he thought she was Muslim. That's why racism is relevant, but it is interesting that people only seem to want to discuss Muslim rapists and/or "two tier policing".

Why do people keep wanting to discuss rapes only if they've been committed by immigrants? (It seems like that anyway!)

Primrose53

sundowngirl

A just sentence for an appalling crime, but we need life to mean life
Let’s hope the three disgusting asylum seekers who raped the girl on Brighton beach and filmed themselves doing it, get similar sentences

Don’t hold your breath sundowngirl!

This is another example of two tier sentencing. It was a disgusting crime and he is a complete animal BUT so were the hundreds of Asian grooming gang members and some of them are out of prison already after very light sentences.

Remember too, not only did they rape these girls but they drugged them, got some pregnant, physically and mentally abused them and called them “white trash”. This went on for months and years not just a horrific one off. No sentence is long enough for those vile men either.

Are you saying it's unfair that this man has been given a life sentence just because he's white British?

Disgusting man.

foxie, its relevant inasmuch as he did it because he thought she was Muslim.

He should have got far longer imo.

Yes, I agree Cossy they are good suggestions. I do think many prisoners could be "rehabilitated" with those resources. I can't see it happening easily, resource wise.

But not men like this. and the racist element in my personal opinion makes it worse. Its to scare others.

It is totally beyond me why anyone would want to turn this post into one about race. Do we have a hierachy of evil in this country? Is it less evil for a black or brown woman to be raped than a white woman? Are black or brown rapists more evil than white rapists? Is the difference in colour or religion of a rapist and his victim relevant? Surely not! Well at least in my world they are not. They are all either perpetrators or victims regardless of colour, race or religion.

If you look it up you will see that these abominations were given commensurate sentences.

Primrose , two rapists of the Rotherham gang of groomers were sentenced to a total of 40 years.

sundowngirl

A just sentence for an appalling crime, but we need life to mean life
Let’s hope the three disgusting asylum seekers who raped the girl on Brighton beach and filmed themselves doing it, get similar sentences

Don’t hold your breath sundowngirl!

This is another example of two tier sentencing. It was a disgusting crime and he is a complete animal BUT so were the hundreds of Asian grooming gang members and some of them are out of prison already after very light sentences.

Remember too, not only did they rape these girls but they drugged them, got some pregnant, physically and mentally abused them and called them “white trash”. This went on for months and years not just a horrific one off. No sentence is long enough for those vile men either.