Trump & latest NATO threat 😱

petra

I think the French Senate politician nailed it when he called Trump the only elephant who walks around with his own China shop 😂

www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFfgGaK7_BI

LOL

Caleo

petra

I think the French Senate politician nailed it when he called Trump the only elephant who walks around with his own China shop 😂

www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFfgGaK7_BI

LOL

Apart from the French senator getting the metaphor wrong (it's a bull, usually, but perhaps the French have their own version) it's a very apt description

MaizieD

Oreo

Starmer is placating Trump by promising to help in the case of getting the Strait Of Hormuz opened up again with a coalition of partners.
Iran doesn’t own it, however much they claim they do.

Indeed, Iran doesn't own it but Iran has the power to blow any ship using it out of the water. I think that holds far more weight at the moment than 'International Maritime Law.

I agree which is why Trump and BN need to put more pressure on Iran as well as all interested countries who normally use it get together with a plan for defence of it.

It's too late to defend it and Trump and BN have done enough damage. If it wasn't for them it wouldn't be closed; diplomacy not pressure is wanted.

Meandrogrog: 'I am not a Trump supporter but do just wonder if the Iranian regime manages to make a nuclear bomb and then uses it, should we and other countries have joined in with the US against this vile regime?".

Thats a rhetorical question Mendrogog. I guess the principle can be used the other way round if it's a valid question. So put the other way round - you may not be an Iran supporter Meandrogog, do you similarly wonder if the US or Israeli regime manages to make a nuclear bomb and uses it, should we and other countries have joined in with Iran against either the Israeli and/ or the US?

The Straits of Hormuz is in Iran territorial waters, they have always had control of it.

Smileless2012

It's too late to defend it and Trump and BN have done enough damage. If it wasn't for them it wouldn't be closed; diplomacy not pressure is wanted.

I agree. More bombing will do no good at all.

LemonJam

Meandrogrog: 'I am not a Trump supporter but do just wonder if the Iranian regime manages to make a nuclear bomb and then uses it, should we and other countries have joined in with the US against this vile regime?".

Thats a rhetorical question Mendrogog. I guess the principle can be used the other way round if it's a valid question. So put the other way round - you may not be an Iran supporter Meandrogog, do you similarly wonder if the US or Israeli regime manages to make a nuclear bomb and uses it, should we and other countries have joined in with Iran against either the Israeli and/ or the US?

You are trying to compare like for like, which does not hold here. Iran is nothing like the US so no
I never wonder about the threat being the other way round.

Meandrogrog

Whitewavemark2

Meandrogrog

I am not a Trump supporter but do just wonder if the Iranian regime manages to make a nuclear bomb and then uses it, should we and other countries have joined in with the US against this vile regime?

NATO has no remit for attack only defence. So it is a group of countries who are signed up to help defend any member who comes under attack from whoever it might be. Defence only.

The USA attacked Iran without recourse to NATO members.

The USA is not under attack.

I know NATO is for defence purposes only. My point was more that should the Iranian regime drop the N bomb at some point, how would we all feel then about ours and other countries not backing the US.

If that should happen we probably will not feel anything, as we will be dead!

However, if I should survive a nuclear attack I do hope my ethical and moral sense survives with me.

No-one has the right to begin a war - they may however do so as a consequence of not allowing another country to invade them, but in that case they are not the agressor.

In this case Trump is - along with those members of his administration and the US military who might just have been able to stop him from starting this stupid and unnecessary war.

So I trust if Iran does drop an atomic bomb in my lifetime, that I shall still feel Trump was in the wrong making war on Iran.

How does anyone 'please' Trump, without completely prostrating themselves before him?

AuntieE Great post, I’m with you 100%.

Meandrogog

I’ll be totally honest, I’m not talking about countries, but their leaders, for me, there’s nothing much to choose between the current leaders of Iran, Russia, USA, and Israel.

It’s their leaders and govts who caused this huge issue, not their citizens.

Cossy

AuntieE Great post, I’m with you 100%.

Meandrogog

I’ll be totally honest, I’m not talking about countries, but their leaders, for me, there’s nothing much to choose between the current leaders of Iran, Russia, USA, and Israel.

It’s their leaders and govts who caused this huge issue, not their citizens.

Very true. This is something we need to remember, that the innocent citizens of Israel, Iran, the US, and Russia, are not to blame for their leaders and government’s bloodthirsty warmongering. And that many at the top in these countries stand to benefit financially from such wars or avoid prosecution and jail time - am talking specifically about Netanyahu here.

Cossy

AuntieE Great post, I’m with you 100%.

Meandrogog

I’ll be totally honest, I’m not talking about countries, but their leaders, for me, there’s nothing much to choose between the current leaders of Iran, Russia, USA, and Israel.

It’s their leaders and govts who caused this huge issue, not their citizens.

I am 100% with you on this.

AuntieE

Meandrogrog

Whitewavemark2

Meandrogrog

I am not a Trump supporter but do just wonder if the Iranian regime manages to make a nuclear bomb and then uses it, should we and other countries have joined in with the US against this vile regime?

NATO has no remit for attack only defence. So it is a group of countries who are signed up to help defend any member who comes under attack from whoever it might be. Defence only.

The USA attacked Iran without recourse to NATO members.

The USA is not under attack.

I know NATO is for defence purposes only. My point was more that should the Iranian regime drop the N bomb at some point, how would we all feel then about ours and other countries not backing the US.

If that should happen we probably will not feel anything, as we will be dead!

However, if I should survive a nuclear attack I do hope my ethical and moral sense survives with me.

No-one has the right to begin a war - they may however do so as a consequence of not allowing another country to invade them, but in that case they are not the agressor.

In this case Trump is - along with those members of his administration and the US military who might just have been able to stop him from starting this stupid and unnecessary war.

So I trust if Iran does drop an atomic bomb in my lifetime, that I shall still feel Trump was in the wrong making war on Iran.

I am not,saying the POTUS was right to start a war but the fact of the matter is that he did.

In light of this it might be a good idea to stand with the US to try to rid the world of an evil and stone age regime.
Tbh I do not really understand why the UK is not doing so.

Fallingstar

Agree with your post. 🥀🥀

Meandrogog

Whilst I understand your stance, what on earth do you think would have happened if the UK and other European countries had rushed in guns blazing?

It wouldn’t just be Iran we’d be fighting, other ME or Asian countries would undoubtedly come forward, many many citizens and servicemen and women would die or be injured, not to mention homes and businesses destroyed, economic and financial devastation, more people displaced.

I loathe and despise the Iran regime, there are other regimes that run other countries across ME, Asia and Africa, should we bomb them too?

I’m sorry but I just don’t think it would work and the losses would be devastating and astronomical in so many ways.

AuntieE

Meandrogrog

Whitewavemark2

Meandrogrog

I am not a Trump supporter but do just wonder if the Iranian regime manages to make a nuclear bomb and then uses it, should we and other countries have joined in with the US against this vile regime?

NATO has no remit for attack only defence. So it is a group of countries who are signed up to help defend any member who comes under attack from whoever it might be. Defence only.

The USA attacked Iran without recourse to NATO members.

The USA is not under attack.

I know NATO is for defence purposes only. My point was more that should the Iranian regime drop the N bomb at some point, how would we all feel then about ours and other countries not backing the US.

If that should happen we probably will not feel anything, as we will be dead!

However, if I should survive a nuclear attack I do hope my ethical and moral sense survives with me.

No-one has the right to begin a war - they may however do so as a consequence of not allowing another country to invade them, but in that case they are not the agressor.

In this case Trump is - along with those members of his administration and the US military who might just have been able to stop him from starting this stupid and unnecessary war.

So I trust if Iran does drop an atomic bomb in my lifetime, that I shall still feel Trump was in the wrong making war on Iran.

This week I watched the film "On the Beach" which is about the aftermath of nuclear war when most are dead except for a pocket of survivors. These know that death from radiation sickness will come eventually and soon. The authorities have suicide pills ready to distribute when the time comes.

What difference would it have made if the UK had 'co-operated'?
It is an illegal war.
There was no threat to the US.
Hegsith would have been in charge.
What has his leadership achieved?

Meandrogrog

LemonJam

Meandrogrog: 'I am not a Trump supporter but do just wonder if the Iranian regime manages to make a nuclear bomb and then uses it, should we and other countries have joined in with the US against this vile regime?".

Thats a rhetorical question Mendrogog. I guess the principle can be used the other way round if it's a valid question. So put the other way round - you may not be an Iran supporter Meandrogog, do you similarly wonder if the US or Israeli regime manages to make a nuclear bomb and uses it, should we and other countries have joined in with Iran against either the Israeli and/ or the US?

You are trying to compare like for like, which does not hold here. Iran is nothing like the US so no
I never wonder about the threat being the other way round.

If we are dealing in ifs, then what if it HAD been the other way round? What if this ceasefire failed, the war continued with unimaginable loss of life, and the UK and other EU countries were to take up arms to defend ordinary Iranians (not the vile regime, but the exploited multitudes) against the bombs which were destroying the country and killing them by the tens of thousands?

What if Trump and Hegseth and the other heads of the US regime then classed the UK as an enemy and attacked us? Trump could be incensed enough to order the "ultimate deterrent", Hegseth could be bloodthirsty enough to enjoy bombing London and other British cities, Miller is spiteful enough too, and the prospect of getting lucrative future contracts for rebuilding once we had been conquered and humiliated and the victorious US was restructuring the physical, social, political and most of all the financial scene would bring joy to the hearts of many billionaires.

Once a country gets fired up with battle lust and a fever for their cause, and once an unbalanced leader and his military head think they are holy avengers, there is no difference between Iran and the US. The threat could indeed turn the other way round.

If Trump is so bothered about human rights inasmuch as he wanted rid of the Iranian regime, I suggest he looks no further than Saudi, a staunch ally of the US, with the Crown Prince a principal player when it comes to egging Trump on with the illegal war in Iran. Amnesty has many cases of human rights abuses in Saudi and Khashoggi isn’t the only person murdered for dissent, though one of the most high profile.

Fallingstar

If Trump is so bothered about human rights inasmuch as he wanted rid of the Iranian regime, I suggest he looks no further than Saudi, a staunch ally of the US, with the Crown Prince a principal player when it comes to egging Trump on with the illegal war in Iran. Amnesty has many cases of human rights abuses in Saudi and Khashoggi isn’t the only person murdered for dissent, though one of the most high profile.

The difference there is that Saudi Arabia has always cultivated a positive relationship with the West to the advantage of both.

Iran in more recent times has shown it is not interested in such a positive relationship.

However, if the USA, with or without any allies, went to war with every regime in the world where they did not agree with the regime, wars would be constant and worldwide.

Caleo

AuntieE

Meandrogrog

Whitewavemark2

Meandrogrog

I am not a Trump supporter but do just wonder if the Iranian regime manages to make a nuclear bomb and then uses it, should we and other countries have joined in with the US against this vile regime?

NATO has no remit for attack only defence. So it is a group of countries who are signed up to help defend any member who comes under attack from whoever it might be. Defence only.

The USA attacked Iran without recourse to NATO members.

The USA is not under attack.

I know NATO is for defence purposes only. My point was more that should the Iranian regime drop the N bomb at some point, how would we all feel then about ours and other countries not backing the US.

If that should happen we probably will not feel anything, as we will be dead!

However, if I should survive a nuclear attack I do hope my ethical and moral sense survives with me.

No-one has the right to begin a war - they may however do so as a consequence of not allowing another country to invade them, but in that case they are not the agressor.

In this case Trump is - along with those members of his administration and the US military who might just have been able to stop him from starting this stupid and unnecessary war.

So I trust if Iran does drop an atomic bomb in my lifetime, that I shall still feel Trump was in the wrong making war on Iran.

This week I watched the film "On the Beach" which is about the aftermath of nuclear war when most are dead except for a pocket of survivors. These know that death from radiation sickness will come eventually and soon. The authorities have suicide pills ready to distribute when the time comes.

I have read the book.

I agree Allira. And this is a point worth considering for those who kept saying that Trump wants to get rid of the regime because of the way the regime brutalises its people or may even persevere with this viewpoint. This is basically incorrect as your post points out. Basically it is ok for Saudi to brutalise, murder, or execute its citizens, or migrant workers, because it is an ally. So it isn’t about human rights at all. Or even about hostile regimes rather than allies, seeing as Northern Korea hasn’t even earned a mention in Trumps rants about saving brutally oppressed people.
In essence it is Netanyahu’s war and he, like Bibi, needed a big gesture to distract from problems at home - Epstein - and play ‘the big I am’, imagining the war would be another Venezuela because what Trump knows about Iran and the whole region you could write on a beer mat with room to spare.

It's nothing to do with human rights.

What's this about Iran having a "stone age regime"? As others have written, many thousands of years ago, Iran/Persia had a civilisation more advanced than anything in America or Europe.

Meandrogrog: 'I am not a Trump supporter but do just wonder if the Iranian regime manages to make a nuclear bomb and then uses it, should we and other countries have joined in with the US against this vile regime?".

Lemonjam: Thats a rhetorical question Mendrogog. I guess the principle can be used the other way round if it's a valid question. So put the other way round - you may not be an Iran supporter Meandrogog, do you similarly wonder if the US or Israeli regime manages to make a nuclear bomb and uses it, should we and other countries have joined in with Iran against either the Israeli and/ or the US?

Meandrogog 17.14: "You are trying to compare like for like, which does not hold here. Iran is nothing like the US so no
I never wonder about the threat being the other way round"

Both US and Israel have nuclear capability so are alike with Iran in that respect. Iran has not made a nuclear bomb and threatened to use it. It is Trump and Netanyahu who are making the threats- they started this war, not Iran.

If you're dealing in 'IFS' be fair and even handed with your if question. I agree with Elegran 21.30 "there is no difference between Iran and the US. The threat could indeed turn the other way round".