Uk defences

A modern aircraft carrier is roughly 15 to 20 times longer and carries 200 to 400 times more displacement (weight) than a large 16th-century ship. While a 16th-century galleon was considered a "floating castle," a modern supercarrier is essentially a floating city and airfield.

Apart from the fact that comparing ships from the 17th century with those in the 21st is like comparing numbers of horses with cars, never forget - “there are lies, damned lies and statistics”

Cossy

nanna8

Well before that they defeated the Spanish Armada but these days they would probably have just hidden away and admitted defeat.

I think you do our armed forces staff a huge disservice.

It's from the Trump version of history in which British forces are cowards and losers who don't fight.

Nanna8 on China;

"Starmer loves them - he is a true communist"

Granatlast007

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0n8gj6x

BBC. podcast - Complex
Kimberley and her guest, psychotherapist and author Jennifer Cox, explore ‘gaslighting’ and how to recognise it. It's a term that's often bandied about but it has serious consequences.

Worth listening before you bandy about labels that are actually complicated and misused.

Thank you. Confusing innit?

I, too, agree that Nanna's comment was offensive and ill-informed.

What I genuinely don't understand is why people, often 'top brass' types from the armed forces and security services so often tell us (and therefore the world) that we are vulnerable to attack, and how we would struggle to survive if Russia or Iran decided to launch an offensive.

Surely that makes such an attack more likely? Wouldn't the sensible money be on saying those things to the government and otherwise keeping it quiet? Then announce that £Xm has been spent on whatever it was and how it has meant that we could do the necessary if we have to.

I tend to assume that yes, we do need to spend more on defence, as we can't rely on the US, and in any case it is only fair to pay our way. Having a % formula rather than a fixed amount for countries to pay is sensible, so that poorer states can afford to do it. But I also assume that those making the statements are pushing for higher budgets and using the threat of attack to scare us into accepting the need.

I am the first to acknowledge that I am in no position to know the truth, but equally, I think that the general population never (and should never) know the truth about things like defence and national security. Everything we are told, our enemies also know.

Doodledog totally agree 👍

Doodledog I am the first to acknowledge that I am in no position to know the truth, but equally, I think that the general population never (and should never) know the truth about things like defence and national security. Everything we are told, our enemies also know.

I don't know anyone who is in forces, or any GN with knowledge, however, it seems considerably too many 'talking heads' talk too much.

Granatlast007

Allira

fancythat

Where does it say that?
Pretty sure it doesnt.

And what about education?

I would rather not have to report you petra.
So I wont for now.

🤔

Absolutely, the navy and armed forces have been downgraded in a world which seemed safer not so long ago. So many things needing funding, no one wanting to pay taxes, we seem to be living a dangerous divine where people announce they only want to pay for what they themselves use (eg, why should I pay for education if I don't have children), but expect top quality infrastructure, mended roads, services provided, governments who leap to bring you home immediately if you happen to have holidayed somewhere where trouble has broken out and so on.

Expectations have gone through the roof with a whole load of shouting and demands and little attention to reality.

Well thanks to Russia and the orange man, a reality check has arrived, I wish we could all take a step back and think about supporting instead of shouting.

Obviously, as we go about our daily lives, we worry about the things that impact on us such as wrecking a car wheel on a pothole full of water, not being able to access NHS care, the debt that some young people are accumulating gaining an education ewtc.

I really don't know why, in a country which is supposedly wealthy, we can't provide good services, including maintaining a modern and fit-for-purpose Armed Forces as an insurance in an unpredictable world.

It's not just this Government, it is successive Governments at fault.

Is money wasted, not spent wisely or should we be paying more in tax?

^What I genuinely don't understand is why people, often 'top brass' types from the armed forces and security services so often tell us (and therefore the world) that we are vulnerable to attack, and how we would struggle to survive if Russia or Iran decided to launch an offensive.
^

I imagine a quick google informs anyone.

Plus, how many secrets are really secrets nowadays?

Is money wasted, not spent wisely or should we be paying more in tax?

Probably all of it.

Though it also depends on how much defences other Countries have.

I was surprised to read today how advanced the Israeli armed forces are.

I was going to make the thread about other Countires' defences as well.
But didnt.

fancythat

^What I genuinely don't understand is why people, often 'top brass' types from the armed forces and security services so often tell us (and therefore the world) that we are vulnerable to attack, and how we would struggle to survive if Russia or Iran decided to launch an offensive.
^

I imagine a quick google informs anyone.

Plus, how many secrets are really secrets nowadays?

🤔 again

fancythat

^What I genuinely don't understand is why people, often 'top brass' types from the armed forces and security services so often tell us (and therefore the world) that we are vulnerable to attack, and how we would struggle to survive if Russia or Iran decided to launch an offensive.
^

I imagine a quick google informs anyone.

Plus, how many secrets are really secrets nowadays?

I imagine they are frustrated and say no more than a bit of research would tell us anyway.

Looking at Ukraine and now the Iran situation, it's clear that modern warfare is a totally different business with satellite surveillance, drone warfare, ballistic missiles which can be aimed relatively accurately towards a target 000s of kilometres away and propaganda, Russian submarines snooping on coastlines, surveying cables to cut.

Few of us can know more than the tip of the iceberg of the details. Soldiers on the ground and debating bravery are useless leftovers from the past, AI based tactical warfare is what happens and civilians are unfortunate die by chance.

fancythat

^What I genuinely don't understand is why people, often 'top brass' types from the armed forces and security services so often tell us (and therefore the world) that we are vulnerable to attack, and how we would struggle to survive if Russia or Iran decided to launch an offensive.
^

I imagine a quick google informs anyone.

Plus, how many secrets are really secrets nowadays?

I imagine a quick google informs anyone.

Of course it does! But don't post anything, they are Official Secrets 🤫

That is 3 times with that emoji.
I dont know what it means.

I dont understand you previous comment either.

Allira

fancythat

^What I genuinely don't understand is why people, often 'top brass' types from the armed forces and security services so often tell us (and therefore the world) that we are vulnerable to attack, and how we would struggle to survive if Russia or Iran decided to launch an offensive.
^

I imagine a quick google informs anyone.

Plus, how many secrets are really secrets nowadays?

I imagine a quick google informs anyone.

Of course it does! But don't post anything, they are Official Secrets 🤫

Hackers can hack into just about anything.

I dont know what it means

Exactly this!

^I imagine they are frustrated and say no more than a bit of research would tell us anyway.
^

Quite.

That is 3 times with that emoji.

Actually, it's not, look more closely

Allira

^I dont know what it means^

Exactly this!

Nope. Still dont get the emoji. It can mean that. can it?

Allira

^That is 3 times with that emoji.^

Actually, it's not, look more closely

Then I have no clue.
Oh well.

And so what if someone doesnt know something.

We find out. Or dont.

Soldiers on the ground and debating bravery are useless leftovers from the past,

Cant agree with that bit.

That is what Trump may do.

He cant "finish things off" , whatever that means, without them.

Looks like they wil go in.
The situation over there is getting worse, as regards the sea at least.
Ships and drones and whatever else you quoted is only doing things up to a point.

" Casdon Sat 28-Mar-26 14:19:37 It is happening already."

It has probably not been loudly advertised to the world, because in an uncertain global atmosphere it is not advisable to publicise too thoroughly exactly what your armaments are.

fancythat

^What I genuinely don't understand is why people, often 'top brass' types from the armed forces and security services so often tell us (and therefore the world) that we are vulnerable to attack, and how we would struggle to survive if Russia or Iran decided to launch an offensive.
^

I imagine a quick google informs anyone.

Plus, how many secrets are really secrets nowadays?

I imagine that a lot of things are secret from all who don't need to know. Why else do we have MI5 and MI6?

I am more than capable of 'a quick google', but I imagine that state secrets are not readily available on there. Do you somehow know differently?

There is really no need to be so dismissive. Are you deliberately setting yourself up in opposition to everyone?

Doodledog

fancythat

^What I genuinely don't understand is why people, often 'top brass' types from the armed forces and security services so often tell us (and therefore the world) that we are vulnerable to attack, and how we would struggle to survive if Russia or Iran decided to launch an offensive.
^

I imagine a quick google informs anyone.

Plus, how many secrets are really secrets nowadays?

I imagine that a lot of things are secret from all who don't need to know. Why else do we have MI5 and MI6?

I am more than capable of 'a quick google', but I imagine that state secrets are not readily available on there. Do you somehow know differently?

There is really no need to be so dismissive. Are you deliberately setting yourself up in opposition to everyone?

That is why I used that emoji 🤫 which fancythat misunderstood.
Perhaps 🤐 might be clearer.

If she/he has somehow stumbled across State Secrets by accident, then really, she needs to not spread them on social media.