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Comments on immigrant benefits

(193 Posts)
Emilymaria Tue 17-Feb-26 18:39:39

I found many reactions to Jim Radcliffe’s words on immigrant ‘colonisation’ deeply disturbing. This is a person who has chosen to live outside Britain, who had no verifiable statistics to hand, and who will not live with the political fallout of his comments. Please remember the lessons learnt following Hitler’s demonisation of Jews, Romanies, Sinti and homosexuals. They were identified as the causes of Germany’s decline. Not true. He was deflecting the punition of Germany for its role in WWI. Immigrants to the UK are now being put in that same role to be despised and blamed. UK laws mean that immigrants CANNOT work until they have been ‘processed’. Many are desperate to do so. I have experience of teaching refugees - no-one would risk the journey to the UK unless they had to. And why here? Britain’s colonisation made English the most accessible language. A belief still exists that British people are ‘kinder’. Oh, if only I could advise them, given what I have read here and experienced outside. My blood runs cold at the thought of Reform gaining further ground in the UK, because it trades on prejudice, not facts, because it is not a political party but a limited company (check it out, with Farage as a director), because its leader fawns around Donald Trump - and because he has every intention of abolishing the NHS. Just look at how seldom he has held surgeries at his constituency in Clacton. How much confidence would that give you should he ever - forbid the thought- achieve the status he aims for - Prime Minister? Please wake up - and think about future generations. It is global companies who don't pay their taxes who should be pursued - and corruption dating back to COVID that needs deeper scrutiny. Do look at Sir Ian McKellen’s marvellous rendition of Sir Thomas More’s speech in Shakespeare’s Henry VIII.
youtu.be/wXq58BbhCO4?si=mJd0sUjpU25sZIsO

LizzieDrip Sat 21-Feb-26 08:53:31

barmcake you say ‘it’s a question of numbers and sustainability’ … have you actually seen the latest net migration figures?

“Net migration to the UK fell sharply to 204,000 in the year ending June 2025, a ~70% decrease from 649,000 in June 2024 and an ~80% drop from the 2023 peak. This decline, driven by tighter rules on work/student visas and increased departures, returns levels to pre-pandemic and pre-Brexit averages - Migration Observatory

Key points on UK net migration (YE June 2025):
Rapid Decline: The drop of 720,000 in just two years marks a significant reversal from the 900,000+ peak, according to Migration Observatory research.”

The ONS predicts that net migration is likely to fall to zero in 2026.

Oreo Sat 21-Feb-26 09:59:28

Net migration is the difference between people leaving a country and people coming into it.
Those we give visas to and come here through official channels.
A lot we didn’t want, who didn’t add anything to the UK or for other reasons have left but boats are still arriving here every day that the sea is calm enough, sometimes a thousand in a day.
These people were not given visas and have just turned up here from France.We know nothing about them and usually can’t check if they are criminals or anything else as lots ditch any personal info, lie about their name/ age/ occupation/ even country.

Lathyrus3 Sat 21-Feb-26 10:00:57

The thing is, people can quote statistics and figures and make statements like “the vast number were professionals” or whatever. And that may all be true.

But what most people will go by is their own personal experience and the way it affects their lives.

If what you experience for yourself is a newly arrived family being housed when you have been told there is no housing for your family that is going to make you resentful.

If you get up every morning and work long hours to support your family and the newly arrived family is given everything they need you are going to think how is that fair?

If you spend a lot of your pension getting to hospital appointments when you see the taxi arrive for the people down the street it’s going to make you cross.

It’s no use well meaning people in comfortable circumstances telling these people it isn’t really like that. The trite dismissal of their real experiences just adds to the belief that people who feel morally superior but who are actually too affluent to be affected won’t listen and don’t understand.

Maremia Sat 21-Feb-26 10:03:30

I think the 'taxi' issue is being phased out.

Maremia Sat 21-Feb-26 10:05:43

But it's not just 'comfortable' people telling them things, they are being lied to by false statistics openly published in MSM.

Lathyrus3 Sat 21-Feb-26 10:09:14

Maremia

But it's not just 'comfortable' people telling them things, they are being lied to by false statistics openly published in MSM.

I genuinely don’t know what you mean about MSN.

And the taxis are still runnng. Don’t dismiss real experience.

sundowngirl Sat 21-Feb-26 11:31:01

Lathyrus3

The thing is, people can quote statistics and figures and make statements like “the vast number were professionals” or whatever. And that may all be true.

But what most people will go by is their own personal experience and the way it affects their lives.

If what you experience for yourself is a newly arrived family being housed when you have been told there is no housing for your family that is going to make you resentful.

If you get up every morning and work long hours to support your family and the newly arrived family is given everything they need you are going to think how is that fair?

If you spend a lot of your pension getting to hospital appointments when you see the taxi arrive for the people down the street it’s going to make you cross.

It’s no use well meaning people in comfortable circumstances telling these people it isn’t really like that. The trite dismissal of their real experiences just adds to the belief that people who feel morally superior but who are actually too affluent to be affected won’t listen and don’t understand.

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

Allira Sat 21-Feb-26 11:52:36

The thing is, people can quote statistics and figures and make statements like “the vast number were professionals” or whatever. And that may all be true.

We cannot know that the vast number were professionals as many arrive without passport or papers.

Allira Sat 21-Feb-26 11:58:41

What type of professionals?
And what difference does that make even if they have the correct papers?

If a lawyer has qualified in a different country, they cannot practise law here without re-qualifying. I know this from a refugee who was a lawyer in her home country and is now a refugee here. It's fairly obvious anyway.
Nor can doctors without undergoing further training and registration.

Lathyrus3 Sat 21-Feb-26 12:04:48

Allira

^The thing is, people can quote statistics and figures and make statements like “the vast number were professionals” or whatever. And that may all be true.^

We cannot know that the vast number were professionals as many arrive without passport or papers.

I just didn’t want to be as dismissive of somebody’s reported experience as some posters are of others real experiences.

At least I didn’t say Oh you just read that somewhere and believed it😬

Doodledog Sat 21-Feb-26 13:43:20

I think that what you say is true, Lathyrus, and try to 'check my privilege' when I comment on things like this, as I am aware that I don't have an asylum hostel on my street, I am not waiting to be housed and my children aren't having their education held back because English is a minority language in their school.

I feel the same when people comment about other things - how more children should have apprenticeships (just not theirs, who should of course go to university), how giving WFA to people on pension credit is making sure that it goes to those who 'need' it, when they aren't paying rent and struggling on a tiny pension that takes their income a few pounds over the mans-test limit, or how dreadful it is that people look for ways to ensure they can leave something to their children if they need care, when the complainers have enough to pay for care and still leave a lot behind. Many policies that rely on means-tests are deeply unfair, as is those who 'have' deciding on what others 'need'. I complain about that a lot on here.

People do have a right to feel aggrieved about all of those things (and more), but the answer is, IMO, to deal with the reasons why the inequalities exist, rather than blaming the people who need assistance.

Raise minimum wage so that people in full-time work don't have to rely on benefit top ups. Make pension contributions compulsory, and if people don't pay in they shouldn't get one unless they have been unable to (as opposed to not wanting to) work. Give everyone an education fund that they can draw on at any time of their life, so that if someone wants to leave school early, work for years then retire and study poetry or floristry that is fine, as is getting a degree at 22 and a professional qualification at 45. Have a ring-fenced tax for social care, so that anyone who has paid it gets care without charge. That sort of thing.

What we do about people who slip through the net is for us (As a country) to decide, but the expectation should be that if you don't contribute you don't benefit from the fruits of others' labours. If people have to think carefully about what sort of society they want to be part of, they might feel less punitive when it comes to other groups. We could go the way of the US (and much of the developing world) where if you don't work you starve, and if you are ill the treatment stops when your money runs out. Or we could opt for a more humane system that expects all citizens to contribute when they can so that they are 'covered' when they cannot, such as we supposedly have now. The policing of that system needs to be tweaked, to ensure that it is properly reciprocal, and a good place to start would be to allow asylum seekers to work and pay tax, which would then allow them to pay rent and so on, so they don't need to be given priority over others. People may then be less resentful of them.

Meanwhile, however, there is nothing unreasonable about being aware that anti-immigrant propaganda is pernicious, that many of the figures we are given are false, that there are reasons why asylum seekers hang about their home towns (they are not allowed to work and have no money for recreational pursuits) and that if they are vulnerable they have housing needs in the same way that vulnerable British people do.

Lathyrus3 Sat 21-Feb-26 14:03:02

Absolutely nothing there that I disagree with. The problems need to be dealt with, not ignored or dismissed as untrue.

Ah if only we were in charge 😬😬😬

Primrose53 Sat 21-Feb-26 14:27:01

Rewarding people who come here illegally by allowing them to work is a stupid idea. That will just encourage even more people to come here!

They would likely be in low paid work so would get Universal Credit to top up their wages. What good is that? House rental prices are currently very high so how are they going to afford to rent anywhere without even more benefits?

Iam64 Sat 21-Feb-26 14:28:05

Lathryus and Doodledog make very good points, I commented earlier about the local charity’s support programme identifying service users as mainly people with professional backgrounds. I accept the points about transferable qualifications and difficulty proving them. I was simply suggesting not all asylum seekers are young single men who pose threats.
The added pressure on services as a result of ever increasing numbers of refugees is a problem

Doodledog Sat 21-Feb-26 15:42:41

Primrose53

Rewarding people who come here illegally by allowing them to work is a stupid idea. That will just encourage even more people to come here!

They would likely be in low paid work so would get Universal Credit to top up their wages. What good is that? House rental prices are currently very high so how are they going to afford to rent anywhere without even more benefits?

Well it wouldn't be 'stupid' if minimum wages were raised so they didn't need benefits (a part of my post you ignored). They would also contribute by doing whatever the work involved, such as manufacturing things or providing a service, as well as via tax. That would make immigrants more useful than a lot of British people who do none of those things but still expect to be given money and services from the state.

As for coming here illegally, when people have applied for asylum they are not here illegally, and before that their application they would not be able to work or apply for any benefits. Asylum would be refused if people's reason for application were simply to work - asylum seekers are fleeing human rights abuses or war zones, not so they can work in a low-paid job in an alien environment.

Maremia Sat 21-Feb-26 15:54:48

Taxis to hospitals for asylum seekers are being phased out. Fact.

Maremia Sat 21-Feb-26 16:00:53

MSM, for example, The Sun, The Telegraph, The Times, The Express cite dodgy statistics from the 'Centre for Migration Control'.
For the link to this, have a look at Doodledog's post upthread.
Yes, lived experience is important, but so is true reporting on MSM.

petra Sat 21-Feb-26 16:20:54

Barmcake
We went to live in Bulgaria pre the country joining the eu.
When it happened you can understand how jubilant they were.
They had heard the tales of the fantastic wages you could expect.
Talking one evening with a group of people who couldn’t wait to leave and be as rich as crassus. I proceeded to educate them in tax, ni, food, transport, rent etc etc.
They didn’t believe me 🤷‍♀️

Lathyrus3 Sat 21-Feb-26 16:43:34

Maremia

Taxis to hospitals for asylum seekers are being phased out. Fact.

Very true.

And in the meantime still ongoing.

😬

Lathyrus3 Sat 21-Feb-26 17:04:47

Maremia

MSM, for example, The Sun, The Telegraph, The Times, The Express cite dodgy statistics from the 'Centre for Migration Control'.
For the link to this, have a look at Doodledog's post upthread.
Yes, lived experience is important, but so is true reporting on MSM.

Ah, you mean some people believe negative things about immigrants they read on MSN.

I don’t do MSN ( not even sure exactly what it is) myself so I didn’t know what you meant about what was on it.

There’s lots of stuff out there. Just out of interest how do you decide what’s true

For instance you’ve posted that taxis are being phased out. True.
And I’ve posted that immigrants are still being provided with free taxis to appointments.
Also true.

And there’s the dilemma of what somebody reads - no more taxis and what they experience - the taxis still turning up.

That’s why I say that to most people their direct, personal experience is what will form their opinions rather than what they read anywhere.

Primrose53 Sat 21-Feb-26 17:07:56

Lathyrus3

Maremia

MSM, for example, The Sun, The Telegraph, The Times, The Express cite dodgy statistics from the 'Centre for Migration Control'.
For the link to this, have a look at Doodledog's post upthread.
Yes, lived experience is important, but so is true reporting on MSM.

Ah, you mean some people believe negative things about immigrants they read on MSN.

I don’t do MSN ( not even sure exactly what it is) myself so I didn’t know what you meant about what was on it.

There’s lots of stuff out there. Just out of interest how do you decide what’s true

For instance you’ve posted that taxis are being phased out. True.
And I’ve posted that immigrants are still being provided with free taxis to appointments.
Also true.

And there’s the dilemma of what somebody reads - no more taxis and what they experience - the taxis still turning up.

That’s why I say that to most people their direct, personal experience is what will form their opinions rather than what they read anywhere.

We are only supposed to read The Guardian and Morning Star if we want the “truth”. 🤣🤣

barmcake Sat 21-Feb-26 17:12:16

That sounds familiar Petra, and the people smugglers make the U.K. sound like paradise too. It's a bit like us and 'A Place in The Sun' we move to these place and find out it's not all roses.

This country has paid £15 billion in benefits to migrant households in the past 18 months, yet my local hospital has cancelled all routine operations until next year because of financial issues. We've got our priorities wrong.

Doodledog Sat 21-Feb-26 17:23:26

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

MaizieD Sat 21-Feb-26 17:47:02

This country has paid £15 billion in benefits to migrant households in the past 18 months, yet my local hospital has cancelled all routine operations until next year because of financial issues. We've got our priorities wrong.

No, the government has got its economic beliefs wrong. it could easily fund the NHS properly and still fund benefits to 'migrant households' (though I'm not clear what you would define as a 'migrant household')

'Benefits' to anybody drive economic activity in the economy as the money is spent into the economy by its recipients. Funding the NHS would have the same result. Neither of these is a black hole into which money is poured and is never seen again.

Lathyrus3 Sat 21-Feb-26 18:04:57

Oh thanks Doodledog. So we’re talking about all the newspapers, TV etc. The whole caboodle.

Well you can find anything you want I suppose in all of those and judge what’s true or not depending on your personal view point.

You can’t get away from the personal can you really.