If you want to know what Reform would be like in power, look at how it threatened Bangor University

I think it’s more that they don’t want to waste their time engaging with bigots who will publicise inaccurately after the event, and twist what students say to their own ends Allira. University students are inexperienced but they are not stupid.

Furret

Primrose53

Debating means listening and commenting on different points of view. So Bangor just wants to debate to people who agree with them?

No, they simply don’t want any truck with racism.

So they have no faith in their abilities to put forward reasons and arguments to help someone see things differently and change their minds?
They believe they are ineffectual.
Pretty poor and not much help in a future career where they might want to persuade people to their way of thinking!

If anything I’d say students are less militant now than they were in our day.

Furret

Primrose53

Debating means listening and commenting on different points of view. So Bangor just wants to debate to people who agree with them?

No, they simply don’t want any truck with racism.

They don’t want any truck with many things tbh in Universities now, how they’ll ever cope in their future working lives is a mystery.

Mamie

Oreo

Unfortunately Mamie that was then 😲

I have never had any sense of what you are describing from my grandchildren at university Oreo. The one who is a medical student is certainly more grown up than a lot of adults I know.
Do you see that in the university students you know in real life?

As for Sarah Pochin she wanted question and answer. Did she really want to meet a seasoned debater across the table? There were some pretty good (particularly Welsh) orators when I was there.

Mamie am I right in thinking you’re in France?
A lot of our universities here in the UK have students unions that are hotbeds of trans activism, and antisemitism where the students tell the faculty what they should and shouldn’t do and who isn’t allowed on university grounds.Staff are scared of reprisals if they don’t go along with their wishes.Guest speakers are no platformed and university staff sometimes lose their jobs if they dare speak out or incur the wrath of students.
It’s a sad situation.

It’s not Bangor Primrose53, it’s the Students Debating Group, run by students on a voluntary basis. There is a big difference between the two.

Primrose53

Debating means listening and commenting on different points of view. So Bangor just wants to debate to people who agree with them?

No, they simply don’t want any truck with racism.

nanna8

The feminist movement of the seventies was wonderful but what happened ? We need some of those women back !

I guess their daughters are there as leaders in the workplace Nanna8. 😊

Oreo

Unfortunately Mamie that was then 😲

I have never had any sense of what you are describing from my grandchildren at university Oreo. The one who is a medical student is certainly more grown up than a lot of adults I know.
Do you see that in the university students you know in real life?

As for Sarah Pochin she wanted question and answer. Did she really want to meet a seasoned debater across the table? There were some pretty good (particularly Welsh) orators when I was there.

The feminist movement of the seventies was wonderful but what happened ? We need some of those women back !

Unfortunately Mamie that was then 😲

Galaxy

I think what the bangor students said was 'generally horrible' and I think that anyone now throwing around the term transphobic us more than likey a threat to women and gay rights.

I would say when I was a student at Bangor we were very much concerned with women's rights. We were just seeing the evidence of the misogyny endemic in the 1968 demonstrations in France, Maoism (we had quite a lot of those) and other male dominated revolutionary movements.
We were the generation of university students who moved on to become the Feminist Movement of the seventies, always more practical than rhetorical in action.

No, the university’s debating society decided, it would not as not “in line with our values” declining Reform’s offer, expressing “zero tolerance for any form of racism, transphobia or homophobia”.

What concerns me is not the fact that they say it is not in line with their values but the fact that this is a debating society and they have closed their minds to any type of debate which does not concur with their views.

This is the whole point of debate - to listen to someone else's views then take each point, discuss, present the opposite or different point of view, then vote.

Their minds are as closed as they believe hers to be.

Who knows - they may even have made Sarah Pochin think again about her own values.

I just hope that today’s students grow up quickly😬

I think what the bangor students said was 'generally horrible' and I think that anyone now throwing around the term transphobic us more than likey a threat to women and gay rights.

nanna8

There is much less ‘free speech ‘ around these days. You have to toe the line or be labelled far right, racist or just generally horrible. The sick thing is that these people are often the real extremists just looking to denigrate people all the time and attacking people who follow religious beliefs that they don’t agree with.

I don't see the problem.

If you want to exercise your right to free speech by saying something that someone else finds 'far right, racist or just generally horrible' that person is equally able to exercise the same right to free speech and tell you what they think of what you said.

nanna8

There is much less ‘free speech ‘ around these days. You have to toe the line or be labelled far right, racist or just generally horrible. The sick thing is that these people are often the real extremists just looking to denigrate people all the time and attacking people who follow religious beliefs that they don’t agree with.

I totally agree👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
And the ‘be kind’ brigade are usually the narrow minded ones.

Casdon

Oreo

Casdon

Can you imagine the ARRs coalition. They would be infighting like rats in a sack before the ink was dry on the election results. Maybe to a refrain of I Just Can’t Wait To Be King.

We Labour voters can’t be too full of ourselves at the moment,
As there’s infighting aplenty and to the same refrain you mention.

I wouldn’t know about that, as I don’t vote Labour in fact - but if I could, it wouldn’t stop me making fun of other parties, a little gentle humour is sadly lacking on here sometimes.

Oh, it was humour 🤔

nanna8

There is much less ‘free speech ‘ around these days. You have to toe the line or be labelled far right, racist or just generally horrible. The sick thing is that these people are often the real extremists just looking to denigrate people all the time and attacking people who follow religious beliefs that they don’t agree with.

Who are 'these people'? And which line is it that you are saying we have to toe? If it's a line between being racist and not, I think it's fair enough that people should toe it, but maybe I'm missing something?

People have always fought over religion. That's not saying it's right, of course, but religion has probably caused more wars than anything else.

Goodness knows what state the country will be in with Reform. Unfortunately Labour have a weak leader. I’ll never vote Reform.

ronib

This house believes it is wise to split the right wing vote as this ensures Labour remains in power?

Hmm I think that would be a bit too specific.
"This house believes that it is right to vote tactically to prevent those whose values they do not support, from being elected"?

nanna8

There is much less ‘free speech ‘ around these days. You have to toe the line or be labelled far right, racist or just generally horrible. The sick thing is that these people are often the real extremists just looking to denigrate people all the time and attacking people who follow religious beliefs that they don’t agree with.

That is social media for you. I don't think you can say there are fewer opportunities for free speech.
In the past, the pub bore would only cause offence to those around him / her.
Now everyone can share their opinions worldwide.
I do think there are a lot of bots around at the moment. Always slightly dodgy on the spelling / grammar, phrasing, plus names you don't recognise.

Anybody who supports free speech would surely agree that a student run, student supported group, in a university, should be allowed to debate whatever they wanted to discuss. Other students are free to either attend or not attend, there is no compulsion involved. That is what we are discussing here.

Isn’t it odd that Ben Habib and Rupert Lowe are both financially sound and don’t need handouts from friends for clothing and spectacles?

There is much less ‘free speech ‘ around these days. You have to toe the line or be labelled far right, racist or just generally horrible. The sick thing is that these people are often the real extremists just looking to denigrate people all the time and attacking people who follow religious beliefs that they don’t agree with.