I deplore Jim Ratcliffe's words. (owner of Man U)

Me too sundowngirl well said 😃

My son nearly took a day off sick last week. Unheard of for him so he must have been feeling bad. However he worked from home and did a 12 hour day. Because he had the choice to do so.

Casdon

Primrose53

sundowngirl

Grandmabatty- so unless we welcome people from other countries (and I assume that includes those illegally arriving by boat) we are to be labelled “racist and wanting to live in an all white enclave with others who look the same as they do”

You say you want an intelligent conversation about immigration. Labelling those that are concerned about the level of immigration as racist is no way to go about it

Best post on here tonight. 👏

You mean the post that best accords with your own views. Other people on this thread do not in most cases share your views,

I do, well done sundowngirl!

Just out of interest Casdon, how do you know that people on this forum in most cases do not support the view of sundowngirl? Most people I speak to in the ‘ real world’ certainly do.

Primrose53

sundowngirl

Grandmabatty- so unless we welcome people from other countries (and I assume that includes those illegally arriving by boat) we are to be labelled “racist and wanting to live in an all white enclave with others who look the same as they do”

You say you want an intelligent conversation about immigration. Labelling those that are concerned about the level of immigration as racist is no way to go about it

Best post on here tonight. 👏

You mean the post that best accords with your own views. Other people on this thread do not in most cases share your views,

I think a lot of it is downright laziness, if a job needs a walk and a busride to get to then it’s too much trouble, if it involves any work at the weekend it’s ‘but that’s when I see my friends’ ( I actually heard that) or if shift work is involved.
There are some genuine reasons why working age people find doing a job stressful, but simply not the huge number that are presently living off benefits.

sundowngirl

Grandmabatty- so unless we welcome people from other countries (and I assume that includes those illegally arriving by boat) we are to be labelled “racist and wanting to live in an all white enclave with others who look the same as they do”

You say you want an intelligent conversation about immigration. Labelling those that are concerned about the level of immigration as racist is no way to go about it

Best post on here tonight. 👏

Doodledog Sorry if you found my reply smug. It was meant to be helpful but clearly you found it irritating. Apologies!

foxie48

"You're paying for the generation and not for yourself personally - and the generation after you are the ones that will be paying for you"
Actually this is completely true. The amount we pay in National Insurance is spent just like the money that comes in from taxation ie it is not put aside to pay pensions. The money I am currently receiving for my state pension comes directly for current taxation/NI contributions. Not the best explanation but hopefully reasonably coherent.

Yes, it's true, but the fact still remains that most people in receipt of a state pension have contributed to the system that pays it out - many between the ages of around 16-66, so 50 years. I accept that current contributions are paying for current pensions, but so what? Those getting pensions now paid for those of previous generations, and also for the education and health of those now paying in their turn - that's how our system works.

When someone smugly points it out, as though they are part of an elite cognoscente, however, it is extremely irritating. Most of us know, but it doesn't diminish our right to claim our pensions - we paid the pensions of others on the understanding that a future generation would pay for ours, and many of us have also paid significant amounts of tax of top of NI contributions. Technically, pensions are benefits, but as they are linked to contributions and taxed they are not the same as others. Given the resistance many pensioners have to being called benefit claimants, it would make sense to give them another name (how about 'pensions'?) but my guess is that keeping the name is so that they can be means-tested in future. If that happens, there will be little incentive to pay into occupational pensions, so maybe it won't happen in the near future, but I'd put money on it being somewhere on the horizon.

I agree with Ratcliffe that there are too many people on benefits, but a lot of that is because wages are too low for people to live on. That is the scandal - taxpayers support businesses who don't pay staff enough to live on, so they need benefits to survive.

His comments on immigration were racist, as well as being inaccurate. I can't believe he didn't know for certain that they were offensive.

foxie48

"You're paying for the generation and not for yourself personally - and the generation after you are the ones that will be paying for you"
Actually this is completely true. The amount we pay in National Insurance is spent just like the money that comes in from taxation ie it is not put aside to pay pensions. The money I am currently receiving for my state pension comes directly for current taxation/NI contributions. Not the best explanation but hopefully reasonably coherent.

That's the wording I'd read....to which my response is "Words....just words. Now I wonder where our money actually comes from - and I guess it's all one big pot that everything goes into and everything comes out of basically".

I just see those Government words as a way some future government somewhere along the line can try pulling a "Well it was all a Ponzi scheme anyway suckers. We'd just lined up an excuse to pull out of the bag if we tried not to give people their pensions they've 'bought and paid for' personally at some point. Cynic - moi?

Grandmabatty- so unless we welcome people from other countries (and I assume that includes those illegally arriving by boat) we are to be labelled “racist and wanting to live in an all white enclave with others who look the same as they do”

You say you want an intelligent conversation about immigration. Labelling those that are concerned about the level of immigration as racist is no way to go about it

"You're paying for the generation and not for yourself personally - and the generation after you are the ones that will be paying for you"
Actually this is completely true. The amount we pay in National Insurance is spent just like the money that comes in from taxation ie it is not put aside to pay pensions. The money I am currently receiving for my state pension comes directly for current taxation/NI contributions. Not the best explanation but hopefully reasonably coherent.

The attached document gives full information regarding those who receive benefits, it's worth a look as the situation is quite complex but it's relatively up to date.
www.gov.uk/government/statistics/dwp-benefits-statistics-august-2025/benefit-combinations-official-statistics-to-february-2025

Yes, of course Oreo.

Casdon

I think it’s pretty obvious that we all have different views Oreo, and I don’t think anybody should feel they shouldn’t say what they think, as long as it’s generic and not targeted at an individual poster.

Say what they think without breaking guidelines.

Correction ".....paying for the generation before you".

Maremia

Nine million on benefits. You do know that figure, if correct, will include some of us?
Pensioners.
In some studies, pensions are categorised as benefits.

I was feeling puzzled as to why such a high figure was being quoted.

That explains it - ie they've been adding in State Pension recipients and trying to make out we are "benefit claimants". I swear that one of these fine days the next person that tries to call me a "benefit claimant" when I'm not is going to get thrown into the middle of next week by me. I know I know the government keeps calling State Pension "benefit" - but it really really isn't and their terminology is more than a little aggravating (ie trying to make out we are on benefits when we aren't at all - but they've trying to wrongly attach that word to our State Pensions).

All that stuff about "You're paying for the generation and not for yourself personally - and the generation after you are the ones that will be paying for you" brings on a strong desire to swat the little that has just come out with that made-up justification for things right across the face - ie it annoys me so much that the government is trying to play with words and give themselves an excuse if they want it to have a go at my State Pension I have paid in my money to have.

Now, if Ratcliffe had stayed in the UK, and paid his legal taxes, after getting 'benefits' from us, (what was it 1 million pounds?) instead of becoming an immigrant himself then his comments would not be considered hypocritical.

Thank you Oreo

I think it’s pretty obvious that we all have different views Oreo, and I don’t think anybody should feel they shouldn’t say what they think, as long as it’s generic and not targeted at an individual poster.

Oreo

What I meant to add was that nobody should turn their noses up at any kind of job until they’ve found out what’s involved.
They may surprise themselves by enjoying it.

I know some young people, who after leaving school, were never quite sure what job to do.

There were always jobs available around here in care.
They took the jobs.
Found to their surprsie that they enjoyed it.
Then went into nursing.

Maremia

Nine million on benefits. You do know that figure, if correct, will include some of us?
Pensioners.
In some studies, pensions are categorised as benefits.

I think the figure was for people of working age ( under pension age.)

Casdon

Please don’t be put off posting what you think Grandmabatty.

Tho it would be nicer not to insult posters who she has never met and knows nothing about.
Especially calling posters pseudo Christians!
I think Grandmabatty needs to realise that everyone has different views and threatening to leave the forum doesn’t get you anywhere. Stay and put your case without insults is much the better course.

Revelation 13:17 (KJV/NIV/ESV) states that
"no one can buy or sell unless they have the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name (666). This verse describes a severe economic restriction imposed on those refusing to worship the beast's image."

This is for those of us who don't have the bible committed t.o memory.
The UN's replacement migration" concept, introduced in a 2000 report, is a demographic analysis, not a policy, that calculates necessary immigration levels to offset population decline and aging in developed countries. It found that while, theoretically, migration can stabilize working-age populations, it is generally considered an unrealistic, temporary solution.

The last line of this overview is important, the UN did not consider migration to be a realistic or permanent solution to offset population decline!

Nine million on benefits. You do know that figure, if correct, will include some of us?
Pensioners.
In some studies, pensions are categorised as benefits.

AGAA4

I have to add that I admire care home workers greatly. Those who really do care for the people who need them.
They should be paid a lot more for what they do.

It all depends on the home and the levels of care and experience, my own care home pays quite well but there are big differences around.