I deplore Jim Ratcliffe's words. (owner of Man U)

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As Bill Clinton said ‘it’s the economy stupid!’ Top choice will always be the economy but immigration coming second shows how important it is.
I don’t believe it’s now acceptable to be racist at all.

Just scrolling back, and see that immigration has actually fallen.
Who knew?
Where were the banner headlines?
Where is the joy?
Now I wonder, if Reform can no longer use immigration as a rallying call, what will the next 'rage bait' issue be?

Oreo

MaizieD

Oreo

Not something we can know LemonJam as there’s always a big fuss on SM with everyone elbowing to show how very liberal they are where immigration is concerned.
The truth could be quite different nationwide.

All you have to do is find some polling on the subject from a reputable polling company. Assertions don't count.

And neither quite often does polling as people often lie.

As it appears to now be completely acceptable to be racist I doubt that people feel the need to lie to pollsters.

Anyway. I looked at the Yougov politics tracker.

The question asked is Which of the following do you think are the most important issues facing the country at this time?

Top concern is the economy

Immigration was second with 48% choosing it. Which is not 'most people'. Nor does it tell us whether they think immigration is good or bad.

We had Germans staying with us with their children who came in a group and stayed with different families.
They were very clean and tidy. Polite and well mannered. They hated out public toilets.
I would be happy if Germans moved into my village. Actually we do have one lovely German lady.
Sorry completely off original thread!

I am only half German so my house ranges from immaculate to chaotic!

Galaxy

To be fair if it was 20 Germans it would the cleanest village in England, in my experience incredibly tidy as a nationality

Agreed. I was an au pair in Germany and they are incredibly clean and tidy. We could learn a lot from them

Oreo

hallgreenmiss

Jim Ratcliffe’s comments, as well as being offensive, are astonishingly ignorant. There really is no such person as a ‘native Brit’. The nation is made up of many generations of immigrants, many of whom helped him to build his millions. It’s wrong of him to use his position to imply that immigrants = benefit scroungers.

The Vikings and Romans were a long way back, as were the Normans.
Of course there are native Brits.

There are not in fact. There was no single original race in the UK. Surprising, but true.

Galaxy

To be fair if it was 20 Germans it would the cleanest village in England, in my experience incredibly tidy as a nationality

Agreed 😊

To be fair if it was 20 Germans it would the cleanest village in England, in my experience incredibly tidy as a nationality

And neither quite often is polling as people often lie What a huge assumption that we are a nation of liars Oreo

Galaxy

But if there had been 10 or 20 Germans arriving in that small village ( I am half German before people start!) I suspect it would have been different. That wouldn't have been the fault of the germans or the villagers.

This is exactly the case, too many Germans in the village will cause upset, particularly if a few think that local girls can be groped.
There has been too much immigration too fast and it’s changed many towns and cities.The thousands of asylum seekers arriving constantly has just added to it.
If you’re well off you don’t have to live in those areas so it’s out of sight out of mind.

hallgreenmiss

Galaxy

But too little too late. People have been trying to wave the red flags since Brexit, but people ploughed on shouting racist, or diversity is our strength ( which seems to mean that members of the middle class get to eat at a wide range of restaurants) and here we are.

What makes you think that only the ‘middle classes’ eat out at a wide range of restaurants.

Because it takes money to eat out at a wide range of restaurants but that isn’t the point.

hallgreenmiss

Jim Ratcliffe’s comments, as well as being offensive, are astonishingly ignorant. There really is no such person as a ‘native Brit’. The nation is made up of many generations of immigrants, many of whom helped him to build his millions. It’s wrong of him to use his position to imply that immigrants = benefit scroungers.

The Vikings and Romans were a long way back, as were the Normans.
Of course there are native Brits.

MaizieD

Oreo

Not something we can know LemonJam as there’s always a big fuss on SM with everyone elbowing to show how very liberal they are where immigration is concerned.
The truth could be quite different nationwide.

All you have to do is find some polling on the subject from a reputable polling company. Assertions don't count.

And neither quite often does polling as people often lie.

Jim Ratcliffe’s comments, as well as being offensive, are astonishingly ignorant. There really is no such person as a ‘native Brit’. The nation is made up of many generations of immigrants, many of whom helped him to build his millions. It’s wrong of him to use his position to imply that immigrants = benefit scroungers.

Galaxy

But too little too late. People have been trying to wave the red flags since Brexit, but people ploughed on shouting racist, or diversity is our strength ( which seems to mean that members of the middle class get to eat at a wide range of restaurants) and here we are.

What makes you think that only the ‘middle classes’ eat out at a wide range of restaurants.

But if there had been 10 or 20 Germans arriving in that small village ( I am half German before people start!) I suspect it would have been different. That wouldn't have been the fault of the germans or the villagers.

Thank you Galaxy, I appreciate your reply. It goes to prove your father, as an immigrant in the face of animosity, was accepted and became a valued member of the community for decades. I support acceptance and tolerance of controlled immigration sentiment rather than anti immigrant, divisive sentiment.

Oreo

Not something we can know LemonJam as there’s always a big fuss on SM with everyone elbowing to show how very liberal they are where immigration is concerned.
The truth could be quite different nationwide.

All you have to do is find some polling on the subject from a reputable polling company. Assertions don't count.

I was once called a kraut in primary school ( German father), which is my only single negative experience of my father's move to this country. I obviously hold a certain amount of privilege in that until people hear my name I am not obviously the daughter of an immigrant. This wasn't the case for my father who came here in the sixties, when most people had very good reasons to hold an animosity towards Germans, and it was obvious through his accent that he was German. He was welcomed into a village at a time where many people would have lost close family members in the war. There was some good natured ribbing around his name, etc, but he was a very valued part of that community for decades ( probably helped in that type of village that he married a local girl - but thats nothing to do with nationality - the inhabitants of the neighbouring villages were viewed with utter suspicion ). I am not sure my story helps much in understanding, for me, it has been spending 10 years working in a deprived area of a city that has helped me to understand that for many the change has been too rapid and for many overwhelming.
Oh and for what it is worth I think farage is as likely to 'deal with immigration' as I am to fly to the moon.

typo "couldn't" give a toss

Allira 10.55 "I think there are some who see things only in extremist ways of one way or another, which results in people failing to understand anyone who might be able to view a situation from all angles and see the positives as well as the pitfalls".

I agree it helps that we try not look at immigration from an extremist perspective. Hence why I suggested on a much earlier thread a cross party approach to discussing what is best for the UK in terms of immigration.

I'm trying hard to understand Galaxy's views from her situation- the positives of her experience of daughter of an immigrant perspective as well as the negatives and how her experience contributes to the current debate regarding how to manage UK immigration today. That could be a really helpful, none extremist contribution to this thread if she is willing to share.

OP: "I think Jim Ratcliffe was openly, and shockingly racist, and gave no credit for the value added to our economy over the years by hardworking immigrants - we simply could not have managed without them, because our birthrate is not congruent with the needs of an aging population as many of us live much longer than we used to. The NHS, the care profession, and many a person seeking a Polish Plumber (to give a well worn cliche an outing) could hardly exist.

His comments seek to divide us and to encourage racism, and yes, while he funds a footie club from afar haven for the tax dodger. Interviews with some of the fans, themselves sons of immigrants, show just how horrific his comments were - turning fans against fans.Galaxy

Galaxy 8.30 "A sizeable section of society have been voting for reduced immigration for over a decade now, it would probably have been wise to pay some attention, too late now I suspect."

Galaxy 10.30: "I am not anti immigrant, in fact I am the daughter of an immigrant. I am trying to explain why we are in the position we are currently in. . I do give a toss about a fairly privileged 'class' not understanding that other people may have different experiences of immigration to them".

Galaxy what is the "position we are currently in" in your view. It's not in any way wrong to be the daughter of an immigrant in my view, many of us also are. JR sought to denigrate immigrants to the UK specifically - how do you feel about that as the daughter of an immigrant? Did your parent "colonise" the UK, ie did they "take control of the UK indigenous people" as JR said?

As you have now clarified you are NOT anti immigrant how do you feel about JR's and Reform UK's anti immigrant rhetoric- are you for/against/ or couldn't give a toss?

You said Labour's sharp reduction to immigration figures is "too little, too late" but why did you say that if you "couldn't give a toss about immigration to be honest, has no impact on me".

Even more worrying is the young women and some men trafficked here who have their papers taken by the traffickers and then forced to work in the black and illegal economy

This is not racism on my behalf it is being a concerned citizen.

Well said. They are not the only victims, either. Our young children are being drawn into vaping, etc by the cheap availability of these often fake goods sold by the OCG who traffic people here to works in their premises.
It is an enormous problem.