I deplore Jim Ratcliffe's words. (owner of Man U)

Could you please stop talking about things that Northerners have no chance of seeing, it is not inclusive.

LemonJam

Varied- the last non Muslim NY mayor passed a law several years ago to allow NY mosques to call out for prayer- what’s new? Do you have a link that sets out any evidence why this is posing a problem for NY citizens?

The answer to that one is so obvious I'm surprised you said that =

Do you have a link that sets out any evidence this is NOT posing a problem for NY citizens? Ball back to your court...

The Angelus bell is a call to prayer, so it has the same purpose.

The bells ring out here loud and clear calling Christians to prayer every Sunday.
They are quite early if you want a lie in. I like to hear them.

Galaxy

Could you please stop talking about things that Northerners have no chance of seeing, it is not inclusive.

Sorry Galaxy didn't mean to torment you, so perhaps i shouldn't tell you it's making an unexpected appearance down south right now

CariadAgain

Hmmm...."all of New York"....now I didnt say that. I just said "New York" - in America.

Cue for the video detailing off people nearby that are upset by that - including a woman who moved to the West from one of those countries and is upset about it happening there - as that's all part of what she moved from.

Even one area being bothered by this is one area too many - and I'd hate to start the day being woken up by it and wonder who was going to move and, if I was expected to, whether the mosque concerned would be covering my costs for an enforced house move in my own country.

Not exactly trying to integrate and not unfairly disturb people....

Well you said the woman complaining came from a Muslim country so is America her country? Maybe the people at the mosque are Americans so it is their country.

Rosie51

Galaxy

Could you please stop talking about things that Northerners have no chance of seeing, it is not inclusive.

Sorry Galaxy didn't mean to torment you, so perhaps i shouldn't tell you it's making an unexpected appearance down south right now

No it isn’t 🤬the sky is a big grey blanket with a chill wind thrown in for good measure.

Cariad 11.36- you said you had read a report this morning- where can we read the report you’ve read so we can see the detail and what the problem is? Or do you want to keep the report you read a secret?

CarriedAgain - I would be very upset to be woken up at 5 o’clock in the morning by a mosque calling Muslims to prayer.
I’m sure church bells are not rung at this ungodly time.
In this country it would be considered a statutory nuisance if it falls in night hours between 11pm and 7am and you could report it to the environment health department.
I’m amazed at those posters who think this would be ok

Thanks - SundownGirl -

- What country are you in? I'm guessing at Australia?

Must say I wonder if a lot of people are already scared of falling foul of whatever that recent law is....seeing some of the comments.

I shall carry right on as if we had that "freedom of speech" we used to have - and WILL get back again. I cba with being or saying I am "politically correct". I am what I am - and have always been. There is no such offence as blasphemy in Britain - even if they've literally just passed a (temporary) law about it to placate a vocal minority.

I've only noticed church bells being rung at an early hour once a year - ie at Christmas - and think it was 6 a.m. or so (ie not during the night). Once a year....when many of us are actually up...and in accordance with the British faith (which is Christianity) is not a big deal imo and not a problem to most of us. Literally every single day is most certainly a problem to anyone affected by it.

I'm remembering just how many people "did what they were told" only very recently for a while - ie 2020 onwards. So I guess I'm not surprised they're already "forgetting" what faith Britain has.

I'll remember the suggestion re reporting to the environmental health department if it ever becomes an issue - and hope it had staff there trying to do their job okay. Noise is noise - regardless of the source.

foxie48 Wed 18-Feb-26 11:02:04 "It was the start of Ramadan yesterday which may have been a factor, signalling the start of fasting".

You could be right Foxie48. I've just googled New York City guidelines, implemented August 2023, reading Mosque broadcasting calls to prayer ( The Adhan) . The NYC regulations allow mosques to publicly broadcast the Adhan on Fridays and during the month of Ramadan without obtaining a special permit. The policy was introduced by Mayor Adams in 2023 to ensure equal treatment for all houses of worship as churches and temples were not required to get permits for bells etc.

The authorised times for the Adhan are Fridays between 12.30pm and 1.30pm as well as daily sunset during Ramadan. Decibel levels allowed specifically must not exceed 1.30pm as well as daily at sunset during Ramadan.

For every day, non Ramadan and non Friday afternoon calls to prayer, standard NYC noise regulations still apply, which generally limits amplified sound to reasonable, non disturbing limits.

Just like in the UK, if any neighbour, organisation, individual or local business, place of worship, nightclub, disco , music venue contravenes local noise regulations and causes you a nuisance the answer if to record it and evidence and make a complaint to the council/government office to deal with the nuisance.

Must not exceed 10 decibels- typo.

CarriedAgain “what country are you in, I’m guessing Australia”

If that question was for me, then no I am in the UK

LemonJam

foxie48 Wed 18-Feb-26 11:02:04 "It was the start of Ramadan yesterday which may have been a factor, signalling the start of fasting".

You could be right Foxie48. I've just googled New York City guidelines, implemented August 2023, reading Mosque broadcasting calls to prayer ( The Adhan) . The NYC regulations allow mosques to publicly broadcast the Adhan on Fridays and during the month of Ramadan without obtaining a special permit. The policy was introduced by Mayor Adams in 2023 to ensure equal treatment for all houses of worship as churches and temples were not required to get permits for bells etc.

The authorised times for the Adhan are Fridays between 12.30pm and 1.30pm as well as daily sunset during Ramadan. Decibel levels allowed specifically must not exceed 1.30pm as well as daily at sunset during Ramadan.

For every day, non Ramadan and non Friday afternoon calls to prayer, standard NYC noise regulations still apply, which generally limits amplified sound to reasonable, non disturbing limits.

Just like in the UK, if any neighbour, organisation, individual or local business, place of worship, nightclub, disco , music venue contravenes local noise regulations and causes you a nuisance the answer if to record it and evidence and make a complaint to the council/government office to deal with the nuisance.

Thanks for giving us the facts rather than the hyped up version. I can't imagine that once a week between 12.30 and 1.30 and sunset during Ramadan is going to be a huge issue.

Cariads 6am church bells would be more of an issue.

The phrase "thin end of the wedge" is coming to mind or, alternatively, "softly softly catchee monkey".

Reading the whole message I gave - I included those 6am churchbells are ONCE A YEAR. I also included making it plain that our country is a Christian one and the churchbells are from a Christian church.

I doubt many/if any people are bothered about once a year having a church express our country's faith.

CariadAgain

The phrase "thin end of the wedge" is coming to mind or, alternatively, "softly softly catchee monkey".

Reading the whole message I gave - I included those 6am churchbells are ONCE A YEAR. I also included making it plain that our country is a Christian one and the churchbells are from a Christian church.

I doubt many/if any people are bothered about once a year having a church express our country's faith.

You can be sure if what you like but I can assure you I wouldn't want to be listening to church bells at 6 am. When my children were babies I'd have been furious at the being disturbed.

You also referred to every single day being an issue but as has now been explained to you the call to prayer isn't every day and isn't at unreasonable hours.

There is a church very near me and the earliest I have ever heard bells is for the 8 a.m service.
I don’t live near a mosque so can’t say how loud or at what early time.
There are plenty of mosques in Birmingham Bradford or Bolton I should think. Somebody will know about noise and time.

Oreo

There is a church very near me and the earliest I have ever heard bells is for the 8 a.m service.
I don’t live near a mosque so can’t say how loud or at what early time.
There are plenty of mosques in Birmingham Bradford or Bolton I should think. Somebody will know about noise and time.

Yep....somebody does know. I posted the times at 11.10am, 18 February.

Maximum decibel limit for "call to prayer" depends on local authority - and will not be allowed to exceed 70 decibels.

Checked for other 70 decibel noises and some examples given were:
- vacuum cleaner
- spin cycle on washing machine
- multiple conversations at a time in a busy office
- hairdryer on low setting

But the above are all necessity noise - probably originating from the person hearing it themselves.

this conversation sounds to be to be on a level with townspeople moving to the country and then complaining about cockerels crowing at dawn. and 'dawn' can be 3 o'clock in the morning in the summer.

As it started from a US person objecting to the Muslim call to prayer we might recall that the US is not a 'Christian country' (unlike Britain which officially is) but is multicultural and has no 'official' religion, the US Constitution specifically emphasising its secular nature, I don't find Cariad's argument particularly appropriate.

In my experience most people seem to adapt to the environmental 'noises' in the area in which they live and are able to sleep though anything...

"Most" people?

That would be why I spent literally years being woken and the like by early morning aircraft flights from the nearest airport that had started up subsequent to my buying my last house......

....and was still being disturbed days later by adjacent neighbour playing "silly B&s" at one point deliberately by not stopping mechanical noise that was coming through into my bedroom from his house and he finally got around to just "padding it around" and the noise stopped coming through.

If I searched I could probably readily find research I have read before about people living near motorways/other busy roads that tell everyone it doesn't bother them now - but recording how their sleep pattern is compared to a normal one shows they are indeed having worse sleep than others.

this conversation sounds to be to be on a level with townspeople moving to the country and then complaining about cockerels crowing at dawn. and 'dawn' can be 3 o'clock in the morning in the summer.

I was thinking that it sounded like a towns person escaping to the country, an idyllic cottage next to the church then complaining when the bellringers practise.

Come to think of it, I haven't heard our church bells ringing for a long time, perhaps they can't find bellringers.
It's good exercise!

That would be why I spent literally years being woken and the like by early morning aircraft flights from the nearest airport that had started up subsequent to my buying my last house......

We lived near Heathrow at one time - when Concorde was flying!

CariadAgain

"Most" people?

That would be why I spent literally years being woken and the like by early morning aircraft flights from the nearest airport that had started up subsequent to my buying my last house......

....and was still being disturbed days later by adjacent neighbour playing "silly B&s" at one point deliberately by not stopping mechanical noise that was coming through into my bedroom from his house and he finally got around to just "padding it around" and the noise stopped coming through.

If I searched I could probably readily find research I have read before about people living near motorways/other busy roads that tell everyone it doesn't bother them now - but recording how their sleep pattern is compared to a normal one shows they are indeed having worse sleep than others.

Lemonjam has kindly posted the times the call to prayer is permitted in New York. Between 12.30 and 1.30 on Fridays and sunset during Ramadan. I would imagine New York has plenty of noise at those times.
It is about equality, churches can ring bells mosques can have the call to prayer. The level of noise will vary with how close you are to the source but having stayed in a Muslim country close to a mosque I found it less intrusive than bells.