I deplore Jim Ratcliffe's words. (owner of Man U)

Rosie51

Galaxy

Could you please stop talking about things that Northerners have no chance of seeing, it is not inclusive.

Sorry Galaxy didn't mean to torment you, so perhaps i shouldn't tell you it's making an unexpected appearance down south right now

No it isn’t 🤬the sky is a big grey blanket with a chill wind thrown in for good measure.

CariadAgain

Hmmm...."all of New York"....now I didnt say that. I just said "New York" - in America.

Cue for the video detailing off people nearby that are upset by that - including a woman who moved to the West from one of those countries and is upset about it happening there - as that's all part of what she moved from.

Even one area being bothered by this is one area too many - and I'd hate to start the day being woken up by it and wonder who was going to move and, if I was expected to, whether the mosque concerned would be covering my costs for an enforced house move in my own country.

Not exactly trying to integrate and not unfairly disturb people....

Well you said the woman complaining came from a Muslim country so is America her country? Maybe the people at the mosque are Americans so it is their country.

Galaxy

Could you please stop talking about things that Northerners have no chance of seeing, it is not inclusive.

Sorry Galaxy didn't mean to torment you, so perhaps i shouldn't tell you it's making an unexpected appearance down south right now

The bells ring out here loud and clear calling Christians to prayer every Sunday.
They are quite early if you want a lie in. I like to hear them.

The Angelus bell is a call to prayer, so it has the same purpose.

LemonJam

Varied- the last non Muslim NY mayor passed a law several years ago to allow NY mosques to call out for prayer- what’s new? Do you have a link that sets out any evidence why this is posing a problem for NY citizens?

The answer to that one is so obvious I'm surprised you said that =

Do you have a link that sets out any evidence this is NOT posing a problem for NY citizens? Ball back to your court...

Could you please stop talking about things that Northerners have no chance of seeing, it is not inclusive.

Think it's that mysterious yellow blob in the sky that magically appears for a very short time about once a week at the moment Allira. Keep your eyes peeled and you might just get a glimpse 😂

Islamic prayer times are determined by the position of the sun.

😂 What is this thing called the sun?

Cariad- sorry for typo predictive text

Varied- the last non Muslim NY mayor passed a law several years ago to allow NY mosques to call out for prayer- what’s new? Do you have a link that sets out any evidence why this is posing a problem for NY citizens?

Just checked and the length of that might even go on for over 5 minutes - that's you well and truly woken up then during sleep or nap times. Next hour or so trying to calm back down and resume what you were doing....not much of a break before "Here it goes again..." time. Really conducive to community harmony - not...

Just checked what times of disturbance would be if allowed to happen where I am now:

0549 - sleep time for most
1233 - there goes any conversation or music whilst you might be having lunch
1452 - there goes any music you're listening to or afternoon nap you're having or having "peace and quiet" to read
1721 - you're possibly still doing something quiet like reading or chatting to anyone you're having round for dinner
18.27 - probably eating dinner and maybe enjoying some classical soothing music or a conversation you're having and having to put them on pause whilst you wait it out for that to finish and get back to normal.

Quite a bit of potential disruption for the day...

Maremia

The Angelus bell used to be sounded in Ireland, at 6am, 12 noon and 6pm. Not sure if that still happens.

Errrm...not the same thing at all.

1. 6am is basically the start of getting up time for people. About 5am is still during the night and most people will still be sleeping.

2. Angelus - that would be Christian then...ie normal noise in a Western country. Ireland is a western country.

3. Three times daily is not 5 times daily. There would be a lot of difference between 6am (might be due to be awake anyway), 12 noon (start of lunchtime time of day), 6pm (start of dinner time time of day). Not having to remember "What's the next time they're going to start that up and what time are they planning to do that in this location/what time will it be disturbing me if I'm in another location here? What is it going to disturb that I'm doing this time?"

It was the start of Ramadan yesterday which may have been a factor, signalling the start of fasting.

The Angelus bell used to be sounded in Ireland, at 6am, 12 noon and 6pm. Not sure if that still happens.

Well Galaxy, for those who are not racist then, obvs, those remarks are not aimed at them.
People are entitled to call out racism wherever they encounter it.

Whether the noise is an ordinary acceptable one in a Western country (which it isn’t) also has an effect.

What on earth does that mean?

Powerful motorbikes and cars are relatively recent inventions. So are are pneumatic drills. So are jet engines, RAF practice flights over farmland etc etc etc.

The world is a noisy place. Cities are noisy palces. People get used to regular noise - like church bells.

...and yep...I have checked when the "night-time wake-up" would happen here if it started up and it would be about 5 a.m. (ie during the night). I'm an early riser myself - but don't get up normally until 6am/7am. So it would wake me up/raise blood pressure (literally) and an angry start to the day.

Now - I don't have early morning noise/rarely have noise during more sociable hours. Even living back in a city (albeit smaller) once I moved into the back bedroom there was never any noise (unless the next door neighbour was being antisocial noisewise).

The decibel level and type of noise are obviously going to have an effect as to whether people get disturbed or no. Whether the noise is an ordinary acceptable one in a Western country (which it isnt) also has an effect.

Some people will have windows that are very good for keeping noise out - but it might not necessarily include unexpected noise.

Surprised there are some people who find unusual and loud noise being inflicted on others acceptable and how acceptable they'd find it if they were the ones on the receiving end of it. One can have chosen to live in a busy/noisy city and have bargained accordingly for "normal noise" but not for abnormal noise. I spent some months living in one of our big cities (Birmingham) - but the set-up was such I never once got disturbed by noise - but a nearby mosque doing that would have got through into my bedroom.

In a Western country one only expects Western noise and, if need be, will have adapted to it. But this is not....and adaptation by the host community is not something it is reasonable to expect.

Islamic prayer times are determined by the position of the sun.

Fajr is determined at the first light of dawn so the call to prayer will vary according to the time of year.

Today, in London it is 5:32 a.m.

In New York, the sun rises between approximately 5:25 a.m. and 7:15 a.m. depending on the season.

These are busy, noisy cities that rarely sleep anyway. People are up early for work. I worked in London for 50 years and rose at 5:30am, showered, breakfasted, walked to the station to be on a train by 7:00 latest to be in work for 8:00am. It was no big deal.

Wherever one lives, there will be early morning noise; whether it's a cock crowing, a motor-biking neighbour going to work, general traffic, living by a busy railway line etc etc. Night workers are used to sleeping in the day through the usual hubbub of daytime noise. It’s what earplugs were made for.

Hmmm...."all of New York"....now I didnt say that. I just said "New York" - in America.

Cue for the video detailing off people nearby that are upset by that - including a woman who moved to the West from one of those countries and is upset about it happening there - as that's all part of what she moved from.

Even one area being bothered by this is one area too many - and I'd hate to start the day being woken up by it and wonder who was going to move and, if I was expected to, whether the mosque concerned would be covering my costs for an enforced house move in my own country.

Not exactly trying to integrate and not unfairly disturb people....

Golly, Cariad, the call to prayer that can be heard throughout the whole of New York? That has to be quite the feat.
Maybe, just maybe it's just in one tiny corner, near a mosque...

Would you like to give us some examples of ‘perfectly ordinary views which have been deemed perfectly acceptable for decades’, Cariad?

During my lifetime the perception of what is acceptable has changed a great deal. I’m just wondering which views have remained acceptable.

Now thinking of a report I saw this morning which says the Muslim call to prayer is ringing out now at 5 a.m. in New York. Errrr....hello....last time I looked New York is in America!!!! Looks like they need to change their new mayor - as that seems to be his doing authorising that.

I'd be willing to bet Americans protesting about this in their own country are getting some verbal brickbats just from saying "But it's America........we don't do that".