I deplore Jim Ratcliffe's words. (owner of Man U)

Does it have to be said, yet again, that for some asylum seekers the 'legal' routes are not available to them because of the very conditions from which they are seeking asylum hmm

No it doesnt

Everyone know s that.

So why say it again.

MaizieD

^they actually enter illegally.^

Does it have to be said, yet again, that for some asylum seekers the 'legal' routes are not available to them because of the very conditions from which they are seeking asylum

Apparently is does, Maizie. Over and over and over again. I could post a link to the law about this but those who repeatedly call people illegal won’t read it so what’s the point?

You are right. A dreadful thread and an increasingly dreadful site.

I wonder what potential investors in Justine Roberts’ business think when they see it? That’s why the Saga platform was shut down. I can see this going the same way.

Wyllow3

sundowngirl

Perhaps they are disillusioned with the government and concerned that far too much money is being spent on the illegal immigrants. when it could possibly be spent on other issues that are affecting them.

But do "these people" understand that only around 6% of immigrants are irregular? I find "these people" dont. (as per doorstep and other conversations encounters.
Our country needs immigrants. Our birthrate is lower than the aging population and we dont train enough people in some professions and some of our home grown unemployed wont work in care homes and agriculture (and given the wages, and Aro hour contracts, its not surprising)

sundowngirl I find you use of the term "illegal" of people offensive and also something of a misunderstanding of the law.

People cannot be "illegal immigrants" because our national policy is and has been for a very, very long time that people are legally allowed to seek asylum in our country, and indeed it's a proud record that we do.
They are then assessed as to whether they are indeed genuine asylum seeker or should be deported.

I also instinctively find calling any human being "illegal". It is not illegal to be a human being. Thats why the term "irregular immigrant" is now used as in entering the country outside of the official immigration system. Please dont.

Errrm....there are problems with the idea of "homegrown unemployed won't work in care homes and agriculture" and the first two thoughts that came to my mind as to why not (quoting ones that would influence me personally) are:

- I've talked to more than one person who worked in or was trying to get work in carehomes and one got blackmailed into having "that jab" (ie the Covid one that he himself had decided against) in order to be able to ask for carehome work. Another one I talked with that had been working in a carehome for some time before those jabs came along got blackmailed into it as well (or he'd have been unfairly dismissed). That's two I can think of

I'll admit too to wondering exactly what duties anyone would have wanted from me - even in Normal Times - and I'd be okay (if need be) with serving meals, normal type housework (ie similar to what I'd do in my own home). But I'm well aware there are tasks I wouldnt want to do/wouldnt do (ie of a more "personal" nature) and I admire people who can cope with that sort of task - but I know I couldnt/wouldnt personally (as I'm too squeamish basically).

As for agriculture - ditto "That's a no from me". It's too hard physical work and literally one day doing it at a much younger age than now (ie whilst a teenager) was a case of "helping to deadhead flowers in a greenhouse" as I recall and cue for being far too hot, not told how to deal with needing a glass of water or three when needed and so I just assumed I could use the tap I spotted in the greenhouse (cue for diarrhoea that day - as no-one had indicated in any way that it wasnt fit to drink and I think it had come straight from a nearby stream. Good job they only made me sick for a few hours and no further harm than that). An older person would probably have found it rather more strenuous than I did.

So - yep.....genuine query of = Where do unemployed people find reasonable condition office jobs and the like from? (goodness knows that was hard enough in a city back in the 1980s and hence two of my spells of unemployment were months, rather than weeks, in length).

So - yep...there is a variety of issues there - ie how to get these jobs done - without expecting to force us into them...and I don't have any answers to that quandary myself.

they actually enter illegally.

Does it have to be said, yet again, that for some asylum seekers the 'legal' routes are not available to them because of the very conditions from which they are seeking asylum

But do "these people" understand that only around 6% of immigrants are irregular?

only??

And we all know by now that[personally I cannot see how 130,000 or whatever the figure is, makes up 6% of the population]
they actually enter illegally. No matter how many people try and make and say it to not look like that.

And every knows "our country needs immigrants"
Even been discussed further up thread.

Yes, Maybee. It's the appeal to the amygdala, the lizard brain. It reacts to threats, often overriding the logical, conscious, and thinking part of the brain, the prefrontal cortex.

It's what papers like the Mail, Express and increasingly the DT appeal to, making people think they are under existential threat when they are not. Reform have honed this manipulation into a fine art.

sundowngirl

Perhaps they are disillusioned with the government and concerned that far too much money is being spent on the illegal immigrants. when it could possibly be spent on other issues that are affecting them.

But do "these people" understand that only around 6% of immigrants are irregular? I find "these people" dont. (as per doorstep and other conversations encounters.
Our country needs immigrants. Our birthrate is lower than the aging population and we dont train enough people in some professions and some of our home grown unemployed wont work in care homes and agriculture (and given the wages, and Aro hour contracts, its not surprising)

sundowngirl I find you use of the term "illegal" of people offensive and also something of a misunderstanding of the law.

People cannot be "illegal immigrants" because our national policy is and has been for a very, very long time that people are legally allowed to seek asylum in our country, and indeed it's a proud record that we do.
They are then assessed as to whether they are indeed genuine asylum seeker or should be deported.

I also instinctively find calling any human being "illegal". It is not illegal to be a human being. Thats why the term "irregular immigrant" is now used as in entering the country outside of the official immigration system. Please dont.

sundowngirl

Perhaps they are disillusioned with the government and concerned that far too much money is being spent on the illegal immigrants. when it could possibly be spent on other issues that are affecting them.

The problem is the amount of misinformation spread by the tabloids and social media that lie about what illegal immigrants are provided with by the state. And once a lie has been made it stays in people’s mind ( when they want it to anyway).

It is a dreadful thread MaisieD isn’t it? I would have thought that Elders like us would be able to sort facts from the fiction being spread by the likes of Radcliffe, Musk, Farage and Trump - to name but a few of the millionaires pushing their own agenda.

Perhaps they are disillusioned with the government and concerned that far too much money is being spent on the illegal immigrants. when it could possibly be spent on other issues that are affecting them.

For those of us who love curries, we know who to thank.

Not Indian people (except for my NDN whose curries smell and are delicious).

Usually people from Bangladesh

Do they ever leave the village. Do they go to other towns. I think there is this view that those in villages not affected by immigration don't see other areas, which isn't generally true.

To be more specific. People will give all sorts of reasons for their racist views. Actually, most don't even realise their views are racist and will defend them as being perfectly acceptable and rational. This is what Farage relies on and where his support comes from. My community is representative of many rural communities, it is not unique. It's been a conservative area for years with a bit of a blip when we had a liberal MP. I know there is racism because I have heard it and seen it. I'm friends with my dentist and he has told me about his experiences in the first year of practicing in my town and frankly it made me ashamed of the community I live in. My question is what makes people racist? Why when they have essentially the same issues eg lack of council housing, poor services, waiting lists, etc etc , as those living in ethnically diverse areas but don't have an immigrant community in their midst, they still blame immigration for all their woes and will probably vote for Reform. Not everyone is like that, of course, but there is a core of people who are and from the results of the last GE, it's pretty much in line with other areas in terms of percentage.

GrannyGravy13

Maremia

Thank you Jewish immigrants, who brought us fish and chips. (I accept your correction GNs)
Thanks to the Italians who brought Italian ice cream.
Thanks to the Chinese who brought their cuisine.
For those of us who love curries, we know who to thank.

Your point is?

I think she's implying that we love their food but we don't seem to love them

This is a dreadful thread. really.

Oreo

We need to get the millions not working here back into jobs.

Would you like to give us a breakdown of those millions, Oreo?

Perhaps tell us how many millions you're referring to? 5? 10? 15? 20? More than that?

Thank you Jewish immigrants, who brought us fish and chips. (I accept your correction GNs)

It could have been the Huguenots who brought us fried potatoes aka chips now.
Also oxtail soup.

I'm not keen on either, strangely.

Maremia

Thank you Jewish immigrants, who brought us fish and chips. (I accept your correction GNs)
Thanks to the Italians who brought Italian ice cream.
Thanks to the Chinese who brought their cuisine.
For those of us who love curries, we know who to thank.

Your point is?

Thank you Jewish immigrants, who brought us fish and chips. (I accept your correction GNs)
Thanks to the Italians who brought Italian ice cream.
Thanks to the Chinese who brought their cuisine.
For those of us who love curries, we know who to thank.

foxie48

Questioning potentially illegal shops is not racist and nowhere have I suggest that it is. I'm trying to understand why people hold racist views and in my community despite it being nearly all white except for a few professional people in the NHS and some people who have popular restaurants, there is a lot of racism and I have no doubt, rather a lot of people who will vote for Reform. Any ideas?

As none of us know where you live, and even if we did I find it highly unlikely that we would know the views of every single person who lives there.

I do wonder how you know that the residents in your area are racist?

Questioning potentially illegal shops is not racist and nowhere have I suggest that it is. I'm trying to understand why people hold racist views and in my community despite it being nearly all white except for a few professional people in the NHS and some people who have popular restaurants, there is a lot of racism and I have no doubt, rather a lot of people who will vote for Reform. Any ideas?

GrannyGravy13

foxie48 we all know that there are people of differing ethnicities working in our NHS, they are here legally.

It is not racist to query the motives of those arriving by boat, some of whom have destroyed their papers.

It os not racist to query why in a small commuter belt villge like mine there are five Turkish Barber Shops all kitted out on floor to ceiling marble with designer towels and endless bling, which on most days are empty of clients.

It is not racist to query the two Vietnamese Nail Premises where none of the technicians speak English, are raised regularly and reopen a couple of weeks later.

Speak to trading standards. Those places have been closed down where I live. Kos

Galaxy

I assume he thinks he has the same right as every other famous person who shares their views with us. Gary Lineker, Russel Davies, Terry Christian, and so on.

Do any of them actually live in the UK?

Raided it raised 🤦‍♀️

foxie48 we all know that there are people of differing ethnicities working in our NHS, they are here legally.

It is not racist to query the motives of those arriving by boat, some of whom have destroyed their papers.

It os not racist to query why in a small commuter belt villge like mine there are five Turkish Barber Shops all kitted out on floor to ceiling marble with designer towels and endless bling, which on most days are empty of clients.

It is not racist to query the two Vietnamese Nail Premises where none of the technicians speak English, are raised regularly and reopen a couple of weeks later.

Most dental practices and GP surgeries everywhere have practitioners from other ethnicities, usually British from an Indian or Pakistani heritage family.