How long can Starmer survive? Getting popcorn ready 🍿🍿

GrannyGravy13

Galaxy

Not messiah but there were endless comments about now the adults are in the room, thank goodness no more drama, and so on. Similar myths swirled around Sturgeon because she wasn't Johnson.
It was always going to end badly.

Yes 👍🏻

Yes, but that's not the same thing at all, is it?

I was pleased he won the GE, and still am - more Tory mismanagement would have been worse than we've seen since last July. The fuss over free glasses pales into insignificance compared to the corruption over PPE; and what is being written off as 'cake' was about lying and double standards at a time of national crisis. Not failure to deliver on promises made in opposition, but bare-faced lies.

Starmer has not been anywhere near as good as I'd hoped, but he has had far more challenges than the last lot - not least being the media, who never let up for a minute.

Come on people… do we really want to get into Tory territory with a new PM every few months, if not weeks? Starmer has had an incredibly difficult start to his tenure. Admit it, the Tories were absolutely appalling. Liz Truss! Johnson. Both dreadful in their own special way. Of course the world is in utter turmoil at the moment, mainly due to the actions of the mad man in the Oval Office, trump. IMO Starmer is currently the best person for the international part of the job and with any luck it would be long before we’re back in the EU.

Oh, and why are the BBC going on constantly about Starmer’s missteps when Farage has behaved so incredibly badly.

Maremia

I think this is going to work out well for our four nations,
if better scrutiny evolves to eliminate foreign interference in our politics. (Who was Epstein involved with? Israel and Russia have been suggested.)
If it stops Musk, an Epstein associate, being allowed to pump millions into any of our political parties.
If Palantir, and its spying technology, is rooted out of our facilities especially the NHS.

He has a company called Global Council. They deal with dubious Chinese and Russian clients.
I wouldn’t expect anything else from The Prince of Darkness.

Ladyleftfieldlover

Come on people… do we really want to get into Tory territory with a new PM every few months, if not weeks? Starmer has had an incredibly difficult start to his tenure. Admit it, the Tories were absolutely appalling. Liz Truss! Johnson. Both dreadful in their own special way. Of course the world is in utter turmoil at the moment, mainly due to the actions of the mad man in the Oval Office, trump. IMO Starmer is currently the best person for the international part of the job and with any luck it would be long before we’re back in the EU.

Oh, and why are the BBC going on constantly about Starmer’s missteps when Farage has behaved so incredibly badly.

You are (as said by another Gransnetter up-post) defending the indefensible! Would you be saying the same if it was a Tory PM’s ‘error of judgment’? No you would not …. and you should have the guts to admit it!

Sackcloth and ashes all round ladies.

I think Starmer is an adult. I think he’s made some major mistakes. That doesn’t make him dishonest, disloyal to this country, or a man child.

Sometimes we have to stay with the lesser of two evils (or least of possible evils).

I think we need to stay with the status quo at these tumultuous times, despite the fact that some of the decisions and U turns this Government (not Starmer alone) has made have been uncertain and disappointing.

Ladyleftfieldlover

Come on people… do we really want to get into Tory territory with a new PM every few months, if not weeks? Starmer has had an incredibly difficult start to his tenure. Admit it, the Tories were absolutely appalling. Liz Truss! Johnson. Both dreadful in their own special way. Of course the world is in utter turmoil at the moment, mainly due to the actions of the mad man in the Oval Office, trump. IMO Starmer is currently the best person for the international part of the job and with any luck it would be long before we’re back in the EU.

Oh, and why are the BBC going on constantly about Starmer’s missteps when Farage has behaved so incredibly badly.

Not just the BBC. Sky have had it in for Starmer right from the start. Why are they not banging on about Reforms links to Russia. Farages links with Bannon ( and his adoration of Trump). I still think that Cummings had links to Russia, too. As for being biased well, I think we all are to some extent. But I have always maintained that I will give credit where credit is due and won’t criticise a political party just for the sake of it. But I can’t understand the idolisation of Johnson and Farage or how some people have chosen to ignore the fact that Johnson was the worst possible leader at the worst possible time.

Rumour mill now saying they want to bin Starmer now and put Lamey in his place as temporary leader
- oh boy.......isn't he the one that believes in paying other countries "compensation" for historical wrongs that none of our ancestors did and has already handed over some of OUR money in that direction?

Maybe Angela is lined-up after him - now she's served time in the naughty corner.....oh boy again.....

In 2008 Kier was appointed head of the CPS. This same year Mandelson was the head of the EUtrade commission.
At this time he was involved in the Aluminium scandal.
At this time he just happened to be a close friend of a Russian oligarch who owned the largest Aluminium plants in Russia.
Mandelson dropped all tariffs on Russian Aluminium.
The old pals club ( eu commission) decided that there was no wrong doing.
This story was huge. Did kier not get wind of it 🤷‍♀️

Allira

Sometimes we have to stay with the lesser of two evils (or least of possible evils).

I think we need to stay with the status quo at these tumultuous times, despite the fact that some of the decisions and U turns this Government (not Starmer alone) has made have been uncertain and disappointing.

My thoughts exactly Allira during Covid (a never-before experienced world-wide event) which BJ and his government had to negotiate - but the benefit of the doubt was never afforded to him or his party then by the Lefties on GN

Are those so critical of Keir Starmer prepared for a Reform government? I live in Kent and they appear to be making a real mess here, the thought of Farage as PM fills me with horror.

I voted Labour, always have, and am disappointed things aren’t going better, but understand that what Labour came into was very difficult after 14 years of Tory mess. This media pile on is only to be expected I suppose, too good an opportunity to miss.

Ed Davey seems to be calling for Starmers resignation, too. Now, I’ve always liked the LibDems, was a member for a while and campaigned for them because of their stance on Europe. But I have pointed out to them that Davey seems to have forgotten that he was implicated in the postmasters scandal when in coalition and he assumes that everyone else has forgotten about that, too.

TheHappyGardener

Allira

Sometimes we have to stay with the lesser of two evils (or least of possible evils).

I think we need to stay with the status quo at these tumultuous times, despite the fact that some of the decisions and U turns this Government (not Starmer alone) has made have been uncertain and disappointing.

My thoughts exactly Allira during Covid (a never-before experienced world-wide event) which BJ and his government had to negotiate - but the benefit of the doubt was never afforded to him or his party then by the Lefties on GN

The difference being that Boris and his lot were happily laughing at the rest of us and ignoring their own rules.

MaizieD

Lawyer David Allen Green says that the fact that the government was defeated in the debate on the disclosure of the vetting documents has caused a constitutional crisis from which it would be very hard to recover. The crisis arises from Parliament overriding a decision of the government.

Can Starmer sit this one out?

The government being embarrassed or constrained doesn’t mean the constitutional order is threatened. A real constitutional crisis would involve legal deadlock or institutions issuing incompatible commands, which isn’t happening here.

Parliament has demanded documents from the government before, and exercising that power may be uncomfortable or unusual, but it isn’t unconstitutional. Discomfort doesn’t equal crisis.

Basically, Parliament asserting its authority over the government isn’t a constitutional emergency it’s the constitution doing its job.

David Green is operating as an independent legal commentator within publications that have been sceptical of Starmer. He joined the Lib Dems in 2011 although there is no obvious tie to them currently. This is far from an article about legalities and it's written for publications that tend to be anti-Starmer. Sometimes we want to read what agrees with our own, in your case strongly-held, point if view Maizie. That doesn't make them right.

Starmer has not been anywhere near as good as I'd hoped, but he has had far more challenges than the last lot - not least being the media, who never let up for a minute. Doodledog.

You're right. He may not be improving things as fast as we might like but they are improving things; they are not making things worse.

Allira

TheHappyGardener

Allira

Sometimes we have to stay with the lesser of two evils (or least of possible evils).

I think we need to stay with the status quo at these tumultuous times, despite the fact that some of the decisions and U turns this Government (not Starmer alone) has made have been uncertain and disappointing.

My thoughts exactly Allira during Covid (a never-before experienced world-wide event) which BJ and his government had to negotiate - but the benefit of the doubt was never afforded to him or his party then by the Lefties on GN

The difference being that Boris and his lot were happily laughing at the rest of us and ignoring their own rules.

Well sorta - re Covid and all that. As a few centuries back wasnt it the Black Plague around and Lockdown then (so bad that they nailed up the doors of people who had it - so they literally couldnt get out their doors - even though that meant they'd starve to death)?

Wasnt it the 1920's there was a bad flu epidemic (not human-made that time) and restrictions?

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CariadAgain

As for Reform = we're in a "What else can you do?" situation - as yet more boats pile illicitly across our Channel and yet more non-Western men refuse to treat women with respect as equal human beings?

You know that some of us at least have had enough when someone working in our Border Force deliberately quits their job and retrains - as they refuse to be part of shipping in yet more "illegals". They took on a normal job originally - but then it got turned against them and they were made to do this instead of normal work...

I see no viable alternative to Reform personally - as who else do we stand a chance with of trying to stop all this?

Do you honestly think that the boats are the most important problem facing this country? And that Reform have a solution to it? Can you not see what’s happening in America with Farages idol Trump?

Have been at hospital most of the day so not been able to follow this story. Driving home I caught the 6pm news and heard Starmer saying how sorry he was and how he was “badly advised” about Mandelson.

Isn’t that exactly the phrase Angela Rayner used when she got uncovered for failing to pay £40,000 tax. She too was “badly advised”.

They blame everybody except themselves.

Did Starmer say he was badly advised? I didn't hear that. I thought he said that Mandelson had lied and lied and lied. I also thought that we paid solicitors to "advise " us on legal matters, sometimes they do give us "bad advice".

CariadAgain

Allira

TheHappyGardener

Allira

Sometimes we have to stay with the lesser of two evils (or least of possible evils).

I think we need to stay with the status quo at these tumultuous times, despite the fact that some of the decisions and U turns this Government (not Starmer alone) has made have been uncertain and disappointing.

My thoughts exactly Allira during Covid (a never-before experienced world-wide event) which BJ and his government had to negotiate - but the benefit of the doubt was never afforded to him or his party then by the Lefties on GN

The difference being that Boris and his lot were happily laughing at the rest of us and ignoring their own rules.

Well sorta - re Covid and all that. As a few centuries back wasnt it the Black Plague around and Lockdown then (so bad that they nailed up the doors of people who had it - so they literally couldnt get out their doors - even though that meant they'd starve to death)?

Wasnt it the 1920's there was a bad flu epidemic (not human-made that time) and restrictions?

What on earth has the way Plague was handled (or flu a century ago, for that matter) got to do with giving PPE contracts to cronies, locking up citizens whilst partying in Downing Street, driving to Bishop Aukland and lying to the Queen?

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MaizieD

^Labour have used the device themselves in the past, indeed Starmer did in 2017 when Shadow Brexit Secretary, calling for economic impact assessments. He told the HoC: “We believe this is a binding motion.”^

Yes, but Labour used it in opposition.

When in government it wouldn't be expected that MPs in the government party would support it if it were contrary to the government's wishes.

I’m still not understanding, Maizie. Badenoch has used the humble address in opposition. I do understand that many Labour MPs support her in this. Starmer, having used it himself, knows its purpose. It’s about transparency. Chris Wormald will be asked to carry out the task of collating the documents on the government’s behalf. If any documents are withheld other than on genuine grounds of national security then Starmer will be writing his own P45 but until we see what’s in them, I’m reserving judgement on what's happened here.

I agree with others; no British Prime Minister has ever had to deal with a malevolent madman of a US President who, with a few strokes of his Sharpie, can impose sanctions in the form of crippling tariffs against any country which happens to upset him that day. I think Mandelson’s appointment as Ambassador was much to do with Starmer trying to appoint somebody who he believed could deal with Trump’s challenging behaviour (to put it mildly). We know that Trump does respond to Starmer, witness the former’s changed position on Chagos. Those skills are going to be vital as Trump’s health deteriorates and his behaviour becomes even more unpredicatable.

On Tory excess during the pandemic, let’s not forget that former Tory now Reform Party Treasurer Nick Candy was at the infamous drinking and dancing Christmas party.

Note what it says here:

news.sky.com/story/partygate-video-who-is-in-the-footage-of-the-conservative-christmas-party-during-covid-lockdown-12905279

Nick Candy … is a Tory Donor and is best known for his interest in property development … His time in development led to him working on projects including London's One Hyde Park …

… which he sold to Epstein. Lots about that in the files. Candy was friends with Epstein, Maxwell and Sarah Kellen, the American interior designer described as a central figure in Epstein’s inner circle and sex-trafficking operation.

Mandelson worked with Epstein against the British government before Starmer’s time. Farage and Candy are still part of the circle of rich, powerful and malign people that Epstein gathered around him including Bannon and Thiel. Who is the biggest danger here for the future of the country?

foxie48

Did Starmer say he was badly advised? I didn't hear that. I thought he said that Mandelson had lied and lied and lied. I also thought that we paid solicitors to "advise " us on legal matters, sometimes they do give us "bad advice".

Starmer hasn’t blamed his advisors or himself. He’s stated, accurately I’m sure , that Mandelson lied and minimised. My continuing concern is that Keir Starmer allowed himself to be persuaded the liar Mandelson might just have had a personality transplant and become a (relatively) honest man

“Allira
Sometimes we have to stay with the lesser of two evils (or least of possible evils).

I think we need to stay with the status quo at these tumultuous times, despite the fact that some of the decisions and U turns this Government (not Starmer alone) has made have been uncertain and disappointing.

My thoughts exactly Allira during Covid (a never-before experienced world-wide event) which BJ and his government had to negotiate - but the benefit of the doubt was never afforded to him or his party then by the Lefties on GN

The difference being that Boris and his lot were happily laughing at the rest of us and ignoring their own rules.”

Let’s just say, I disagree …