How long can Starmer survive? Getting popcorn ready 🍿🍿

Lawyer David Allen Green says that the fact that the government was defeated in the debate on the disclosure of the vetting documents has caused a constitutional crisis from which it would be very hard to recover. The crisis arises from Parliament overriding a decision of the government.

Can Starmer sit this one out?

I’m no sure I understand you. Do you mean the humble address to release all the documents relating to Mandelson’s appointment?

commonsbusiness.parliament.uk/Document/102201/Html?subType=Standard#anchor-3

commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-10484/

Labour have used the device themselves in the past, indeed Starmer did in 2017 when Shadow Brexit Secretary, calling for economic impact assessments. He told the HoC: “We believe this is a binding motion.”

He used one again in 2022 to force the publication of security advice relating to Evgeny Lebedev’s peerage.

Freya5

Luckygirl3

He is so palpably not up to the job that his poll ratings are rock bottom

At this stage in a parliament this is simply par for the course. Every PM goes through this. It relates to the politically naive who expect perfection and instant results. This is the basic flaw in our democracy.

I've never known a PM polling so low. He'll never get back up either. The most disliked PM ever.

I don't think so, Freya

Unless by PM you meant Peter Mandelson, although I can't think of anyone else with that name offhand.

I am disappointed that someone with Starmer's experience did not have a more forensic eye for the truth.

I think this is going to work out well for our four nations,
if better scrutiny evolves to eliminate foreign interference in our politics. (Who was Epstein involved with? Israel and Russia have been suggested.)
If it stops Musk, an Epstein associate, being allowed to pump millions into any of our political parties.
If Palantir, and its spying technology, is rooted out of our facilities especially the NHS.

Don;t forget Reform in this. Farage may not have entered the Epstein web but he would have been seen as pretty irrelevant to Epstein. However, Steve Bannon, who Farage appointed as an advisor to Reform in 2018 was heavily involved with Epstein. Bannon also acted as an advisor to Matteo Salvini, Italy's interior minister at the time, the Alternative fur Deutschland (AfD) in Germany and Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban. All are supportive of Putin and lead far right parties. Anyone see a connection?

KC’s in my experience have the capacity to absorb and forensically analyse huge amounts of complex information in a short period of time. The can start reading files at 3am and be functioning and all over the case by 8am. Starmer was an excellent barrister and KC. I’m disappointed he doesn’t seem to have transferred the skills into his role as PM.

I don’t agree with the view he’s the worst PM ever, he inherited a nightmare and there are positives. His international work seems. Very good. I’m sorry that I feel his days as PM are numbered but hey maybe we will have a miracle

Anniebach

a photograph of PM in his underpants talking to a woman , yes, no he is in a same sex marriage, solved - there was possibly boys involved, sorted,

We don't know that and no-one has suggested it......

I don't want to see KS replaced at this time. He's a steady pair of hands on the international stage at a time when we, and the world, need that. As FM he would not have the same authority. I'm not entirely happy with his domestic programme but it is early days in this tenure of office.
I'd like to see him set up an all-Party Committee to begin the process of reforming the Second Chamber into an elected one. I'd also like to see him include the sorts of misdemeanour that would exclude you from ever being offered a peerage or High Office. Reforms and restrictions of this nature don't happen overnight.

When I think how he went after Boris over cake and wine it sickens me. I’m not a supporter of BJ by any means or a Tory voter but KS has been a disaster.

Watching Newsnight last night, the Labour MP Barry Gardiner was livid at how KS has handled this and basically could barely say his name.

surfsup

When I think how he went after Boris over cake and wine it sickens me. I’m not a supporter of BJ by any means or a Tory voter but KS has been a disaster.

Watching Newsnight last night, the Labour MP Barry Gardiner was livid at how KS has handled this and basically could barely say his name.

For heavens sake, Johnson’s downfall wasn’t just about the cakes; it was a never ending stream of scandal starting from even before he was PM.

Labour have used the device themselves in the past, indeed Starmer did in 2017 when Shadow Brexit Secretary, calling for economic impact assessments. He told the HoC: “We believe this is a binding motion.”

Yes, but Labour used it in opposition.

When in government it wouldn't be expected that MPs in the government party would support it if it were contrary to the government's wishes.

MayBee70

surfsup

When I think how he went after Boris over cake and wine it sickens me. I’m not a supporter of BJ by any means or a Tory voter but KS has been a disaster.

Watching Newsnight last night, the Labour MP Barry Gardiner was livid at how KS has handled this and basically could barely say his name.

For heavens sake, Johnson’s downfall wasn’t just about the cakes; it was a never ending stream of scandal starting from even before he was PM.

Absolutely, Maybee.

The thing that ultimately did for Johnson was his Cabinet turning against him over Pincher. All those resignations...

If it had only been the cake.
There also was lying to the Queen,the illegal proroguation of Parliament,
the illegal party on the eve of Prince Philip's funeral.

At least State Secrets weren't in the mix. Hebert Morrison must be turning in his grave.

MayBee70

For heavens sake, Johnson’s downfall wasn’t just about the cakes; it was a never ending stream of scandal starting from even before he was PM.

Much like Starmer but Starmer’s so called mistakes are far, far more serious and it has been one after the other since his premiership began.

Do please list them surfsup, right back to 5 July 2024.

I think he funded a donkey sanctuary.

I totally agree.

Just watched Never Here Starmer literally reading from some (pre-prepared by his media staff) notes in response to questions from the BBC on the PM fiasco - SO genuine ……. 🙄🙄 All the Labour Party supporters who have been so critical of Tory party politics in the past and who thought he was the second Messiah, at the very least have the guts to now admit you were wrong!

No worries about state secrets, when speaking of Johnson?
What about that party abroad, when he dismissed his Security officers, spent the time in the company of Russians, and rocked up dishevelled the next day?

Who thought KS was the second Messiah?

He gained a landslide victory in the GE, so yes, there were lots of people who voted for him, but the Messiah fantasy is in your head, unless you can point us to a reputable source for that revelation TheHappyGardener. Maybe you have the guts to admit that?

My guess, which is all any of us have unless we are very close to the seat of power, is that he has to be extremely careful with statements and speeches, as the police are looking into the Mandelson affair with a view to prosecution, and the last thing we ned is for something said in an unscripted moment to jeopardise that. Maybe you know better, though?

Not messiah but there were endless comments about now the adults are in the room, thank goodness no more drama, and so on. Similar myths swirled around Sturgeon because she wasn't Johnson.
It was always going to end badly.

I've no idea how long he can survive of if he will.

However, I won't be laughing and eating popcorn.

The UK is in a difficult place, as is the world. Not amusing.

Galaxy

Not messiah but there were endless comments about now the adults are in the room, thank goodness no more drama, and so on. Similar myths swirled around Sturgeon because she wasn't Johnson.
It was always going to end badly.

Yes 👍🏻

Doodledog

Who thought KS was the second Messiah?

He gained a landslide victory in the GE, so yes, there were lots of people who voted for him, but the Messiah fantasy is in your head, unless you can point us to a reputable source for that revelation TheHappyGardener. Maybe you have the guts to admit that?

My guess, which is all any of us have unless we are very close to the seat of power, is that he has to be extremely careful with statements and speeches, as the police are looking into the Mandelson affair with a view to prosecution, and the last thing we ned is for something said in an unscripted moment to jeopardise that. Maybe you know better, though?

The impression I got of him being the second Messiah was entirely gleaned from comments on GN Doodledog - apparently some Gransnetters thought he could (and would) do no wrong! How wrong were they??