Andy Burnham blocked from re-entering parliament.

I’m in the middle I agree with some of rabbitgran and disagree with some.

MaizieD

^But after the chaos of recent years, boring competence feels like a feature, not a flaw.^

But Starmer hasn't shown much 'boring competence' in his initial year. It's been one stupid move after another and numerous U turns.

I don't agree with Rabbitgran at all.

We can agree on that at least.👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

But after the chaos of recent years, boring competence feels like a feature, not a flaw.

But Starmer hasn't shown much 'boring competence' in his initial year. It's been one stupid move after another and numerous U turns.

I don't agree with Rabbitgran at all.

CocoPops

Rabbitgran I agree with yout excellent post. Thank-you.

Ditto!

What a common sense, realistic post. Thank you Rabbitgran.

DaisyAnne Returns yes,

Another who agrees with*Rabbitgran*s post. There's lot's of time until the next election so plenty of time for more shocking revelations and intrigue to surface. I doubt the polls of today will have much relevance nearer the next GE.

Good post Rabbitgrans . When I look at the polling, what strikes me is that Starmer’s support (and criticism) cuts across traditional lines. He tends to poll relatively well with centrists, older voters, and people who prioritise competence, stability, and international credibility. At the same time, a significant chunk of the criticism comes from within Labour’s own very broad tent – especially from those who want a more radical break or faster, more dramatic change than the current fiscal and political reality allows.

That doesn’t necessarily mean the critics are wrong in their values, but it does suggest a tension between ideals and governability. After 14 years of austerity, Brexit, and institutional damage, any government is constrained by hard facts: finances, capacity, and the state of public services. There really is no magic wand.

I’d describe myself as a centrist social democrat – broadly supportive of social capitalism, strong public services, and redistribution where it’s effective, but also realistic about trade-offs and limits. From that perspective, Starmer’s approach makes sense: less performative politics, more incremental repair, rebuilding trust at home and abroad, and prioritising competence over charisma.

Ironically, the very breadth of Labour’s coalition now means many of the loudest critics are people who otherwise share the same broad goals. Stability, though, rarely looks exciting in the short term – especially in a media environment that treats politics as entertainment. But after the chaos of recent years, boring competence feels like a feature, not a flaw.

I think Starmer has kicked himself in the foot not allowing AB to stand.
Reform will take that position no doubt.

The influence of Russia, and Trump copycatting is what I think is going on. The media generally pursues a right wing agenda for the self preservation of the owners and shareholders, and because they see the unpopularity of the Tories with the public, Reform is the only place they can go to pursue their own agenda. I think all moderate electors should be praying for the resurgence of a moderate right Tory party at the moment, that’s the best chance of stability for the country.

As far as I’m concerned Burnham made a commitment to the people of Manchester and he wanted to renege on it through personal ambition. Now his bluff has been called he wants Labour to lose the by election and his comments are enabling that. There’s nothing to stop him becoming an MP again at the next election but he’d prefer to walk into the post of PM, something I think he feels should be his by right ( ignoring the fact that he twice failed to become party leader) than end up as leader of the opposition. The media are brainwashing the electorate into thinking a Reform win is a foregone conclusion and he’s enabling that. I wish I knew why the media want a Reform government but it sickens me that infighting in the Labour Party is making it worse. My Labour MP has realised that most of the ‘people’ commenting on her Facebook page are bots. What the hell is going on?

He posed a potential threat to quivering Starmer. However, i never thought I would say this about the man, I thought his response to Trumps last unhinged, shameful rants, correct. We still have to do business with the convicted felon,

CocoPops

Rabbitgran I agree with yout excellent post. Thank-you.

Ditto. I take heart in the fact that others feel that way, too.

Rabbitgran I agree with yout excellent post. Thank-you.

Sorry - too tired! It doesn't Maizie It does Maizie

His framing of “rewiring Westminster” centres on empowering regions and redistributing power away from London-centric structures.

It doesn't Maizie - a reasonable idea. But he only offered federalised Germany as a model. England's combined authorities are closer to a highly developed, regional municipal system rather than a federalised one. While they involve devolution of powers from central government and often feature elected "metro mayors," they operate within a unitary state, meaning their powers are derived from Parliament, can be revoked, and do not possess the constitutional sovereignty characteristic of a federal system.

It seems AB wants to change our system of governance.

Casdon 10.57 "I don’t agree LemonJam. This is a monthly poll, not a one off. It measures which of the party leaders the electorate believe offers the most as PM. That will influence their voting in the next general election. It is one of a range of factors, obviously, but to dismiss it is incorrect"

But I didn't say the poll was a "one off poll" Casdon. It provides helpful data in context of this post.

I quote directly from the poll link provided by Lizziedrip: "New data from Ipsos in the UK's Political Pulse survey, taken from the 9th to 12th January, shows when asked to choose between the Labour Party led by Keith Starmer and Reform UK led by Nigel Farage, Labour narrowly leads (39% to 35%). Keith Starmer Head to head: When the public are asked whether Keith Starmer would make a better Prime minister than a host of politicians, he continues to be neck and neck with Nigel Farage (31% vs 31%) and Kemi Badenoch (26% vs 25%)
Starmer leads Health Secretary Wes Streeting by 7 points, former deputy PM Angela Rayner by 13 points, and Green Party leader Zack Polanski by 10 points. Starmer trails Greater Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham by 7 points".

Update- 26th January media reports: "Labour member polling shows that 66% of Labour members thought that Burnham should be allowed to stand. Either way, his status is burnished, members preferring him to Starmer for Labour leader by 48% to 26%. Only he among senior Labour figures scores a positive public rating".

On the basis of the data, I stick with my view, as previously posted, that the important measure is who the public would like to see as Labour leader at the next election to secure a second term. As Andy Burnham is the only senior Labour figure with a positive public rating, I think, along with 66% of Labour members, Burnham should have been allowed to stand.

Fancythat

I like Keir Starmer and I think he's doing a good job in the circumstances of these times whilst also dealing with a factional Labour Party and hostile media. I think we've actually got the right person for the job. I don't forget that 14 years of Tory austerity (and Brexit) has wounded public services in this country. Hopefully not fatally but it's going to take a very long time and loads of money to get things right again if we ever do. It's really believing in fairy tales to think that any government can just wave a magic wand. I don't want a charismatic, chat/reality show star politician but a competent, decent realist with a good morality. No more Boris Johnsons for me, why an earth can't people distinguish between politics and entertainment these days? Not everything in life has to be entertainment. I don't think that constantly changing leaders and policies provides stability but of course, the media want exciting stories and the credulous public falls for these ploys which are the bread and butter of the media but do nothing to help the people of this country. A new leader will be presented with the same hard facts of life and finances, not a fairy tale just requiring a magic spell. Starmer is settling down a bit now and the international relationships he's forged are important and I am pleased that Labour government policies are lifting many children out of poverty, bringing down NHS waiting lists, improving the defences of the UK.

TGFM (transport for Greater Manchester) has actually transformed our public transport. Buses that serve the whole district, not just the Universities. Extended our brilliant trams and greatly increased our cycle paths.
Those are the sort of actions that help an economy to grow, and it is working.

WithNobsOnIt

1. Starmer and his cronies are running scared. Absolute nonsense about the cost of a new Mayoral Election.

Pennies compared to the other money they waste.

2. The NEC should not be making decisions on who can run for parliament.

3. Burnham is just out for himself. Don't be fooled. He has made some major mistakes as Mayor of Greater Manchester. Especially with TfGM Transport for Greater Manchester which have cost millions

Don't worry you will see him again.

4 Look at Labour. When you have the likes and calibre of Lucy Powell. And the next Thatcher, Angela Rayner It says it all really

5..Be interesting to see who wins the Gorton Reddish election. A lot of very disgruntled old Labour Voters have live there for years. Ho ho ho!

5.

Keep taking the tablets WithNobsOnIt🙈

Hearing this, Starmer , whom I dislike intensely, did the country a favour for once. Burnham changes his mind as much as Starmer, first a Blairite, then a follower of Corbynite, so far left he would have had us mired in a ultra left wing Gov., along with the reappearance of radical Rayner.

WithNobsOnIt

1. Starmer and his cronies are running scared. Absolute nonsense about the cost of a new Mayoral Election.

Pennies compared to the other money they waste.

2. The NEC should not be making decisions on who can run for parliament.

3. Burnham is just out for himself. Don't be fooled. He has made some major mistakes as Mayor of Greater Manchester. Especially with TfGM Transport for Greater Manchester which have cost millions

Don't worry you will see him again.

4 Look at Labour. When you have the likes and calibre of Lucy Powell. And the next Thatcher, Angela Rayner It says it all really

5..Be interesting to see who wins the Gorton Reddish election. A lot of very disgruntled old Labour Voters have live there for years. Ho ho ho!

5.

Yes. Burnham is out for himself. Which is why Starmer isn’t running scared. He just isn’t allowing Burnham to succeed. So doesn’t your third point cancel out the first?

1. Starmer and his cronies are running scared. Absolute nonsense about the cost of a new Mayoral Election.

Pennies compared to the other money they waste.

2. The NEC should not be making decisions on who can run for parliament.

3. Burnham is just out for himself. Don't be fooled. He has made some major mistakes as Mayor of Greater Manchester. Especially with TfGM Transport for Greater Manchester which have cost millions

Don't worry you will see him again.

4 Look at Labour. When you have the likes and calibre of Lucy Powell. And the next Thatcher, Angela Rayner It says it all really

5..Be interesting to see who wins the Gorton Reddish election. A lot of very disgruntled old Labour Voters have live there for years. Ho ho ho!

5.

Mojack26

Don't care a jot,Labour are a joke! Mind you so are the rest..UK is a complete shambles!

I love a well-considered reply.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Don't care a jot,Labour are a joke! Mind you so are the rest..UK is a complete shambles!