British Indians still aborting baby girls in UK

It came over that you were trying to shut the discussion down, maybe I misinterpreted.

No I am trying to keep it open.

Possibly in an inept way!

Galaxy

I think it gets a bit muddy when you try to explore things like this, it did when labour introduced the last legislation on abortion. I don't actually agree with the statement for example that if you agree to a cut off at all you disagree with a womans right to choose.

A cut-off does limit choice — pretending otherwise muddies the discussion. But lots of rights are limited in law. The question isn’t “do women have a right to choose?”, it’s simply “where should the law draw the line, and why?”

If the statistics quoted so far are :-
- "3,124 abortions were carried out due to abnormalities in England and Wales in 2022. In the same year there were 251,000+ abortions in total." (I will add that in 2022, there were approximately 605,479 live births in England and Wales)

- and if "The "evidence" is based on an estimated 400 shortfall of female babies born over a five year period ending in 2021. In 2020 alone 60k babies were born to Asian minority group parents "

- then saying "If this . . . is happening. No matter what the percentage and it isn’t tiny and it’s only the ones known about." does inspire the answer "But we DON'T know about this, and given that medical information is private and that the parents are not likely to reveal publicly (in a country where they could be breaking the law) that they have killed their unborn daughter for the sole reason that she was a girl, it is a discussion that will not be settled purely by personal reactions.

We need more statistics, and more analysis of the figures - not an easy task to either find the figures or to analyse exactly what they mean. Pontification is easy. Understanding is harder. Changing embedded beliefs and attitudes is social engineering and is the hardest of all, and the most likely to backfire or to be unsuccessful. (such as the illegal consumption of alcohol by ex-pats in "dry" countries.)

To change cultural attitudes is more difficult and subtle than to merely enact legislation and to tell people authoritatively that "it isn't right". You have to change the reasons behind their attachment to a practice that is abhorrent in the parents' new host country and probably out-dated and no longer relevant even in the old country they came from.

I supported the woman’s right to choose campaign. I believe that as babies born at 24 weeks or earlier, can now be kept alive and well, the time limit is too late

The trouble with cut-offs is that as medical knowledge improves, viability will get earlier and earlier, so women's right to choose will decrease proportionately.

There will always be people whose choices extend beyond our own boundaries, but if we believe in choice we have to accept that, I think.

Yes I accept that Doodledog. I imagine few women are so late presenting

Agreed. I can’t imagine getting past the point where a baby is showing and you can feel it kick then wanting to terminate the pregnancy unless you really have to.

I’ve been lucky enough not to have had to contemplate abortion, but wouldn’t deny others the right to choose what is right for them, and we can’t know what is going on in others’ lives.

Galaxy

I am really fascinated if people actually think that no cut off is ok. That to me seems almost a reflex response to a perceived threat to all abortion rights.

I do believe that there should not be a cut off.

I personally find the idea of a late abortion upsetting, however I am not in those women’s shoes. I also know that research shows an incredibly tiny amount of abortions that are done that late.

Putting a cut off literally removes a woman’s choice. My personal view is “as early as possible, as late as necessary”

Ok. Thankyou for answering. Obviously the current leguslation has cut off dates.

I would prefer the cut off date for an abortion to be 8 weeks unless there’s a really good medical reason to extend the time.

It's not unusual for women to spot or have a light bleed in the early weeks of pregnancy and not realise that they are pregnant especially if they have had irregular periods in the past. When I was pregnant with my daughter in my early 40's I thought the absence of a period was because I was perimenopausal not the result of a contraceptive failure. When my pregnancy was confirmed at 12 weeks I was both shocked and delighted but that's not the case for everyone.

How would a termination at 8 or 9 months work? Is the baby killed first or delivered alive and left to die. I don't know how either could happen.

theworriedwell

How would a termination at 8 or 9 months work? Is the baby killed first or delivered alive and left to die. I don't know how either could happen.

This doesnt directly answer your question, but is accurately and extremely informative about the "why's" of post 20 weeks abortions - I do beg people to read it (the huge majority are dangers/illness to the foetus or mother, and other reasons need to be understood imo?

www.bpas.org/media/dmjf3y0l/why-do-women-need-abortions-after-20-weeks.pdf

Wyllow thanks but I'd still be interested to know what happens. I just can't get my head round how a nine month pregnancy is terminated. Then again maybe I don't want to know.

SusieB50

Years ago I worked in the NHS in a high Asian populated area. There was a notice in the Antenatal ultrasound area , it stated that “you will not be informed of the sex of your baby at this scan” Nowadays it would not be so easy to keep to this as the scans are much clearer and the patient can often see . My SiL was told she was having a boy at her scan much to her delight after two girls - wrong !!

I used to live in an area with a large Asian community. When I had my first scan for my first born , there too was a notice saying please don’t ask the sex of your child . The reason given was that the scans weren’t accurate.

I can’t imagine a late scenario that didn’t involve very vulnerable parents. It’s likely the medical team would call in the sw team, who would help the mum, parents, look at adoption, or a kinship carer

There are quite severe genetic conditions that can’t be picked up until very late in the pregnancy

I wish people would fight more for children and adult services for as much as they defend the unborn

Good comment JaneJudge

I see this as one of those situations (such as assisted dying) where I can see all points of view, but feel that the individual decision has to be made by the individual person at the heart of it - in this case the pregnant woman. Imposing someone else's moral view is, IMO, immoral.

Nobody should be coerced, and I have no problem with medical staff opting out of taking part if they have conscientious objections (I would struggle to do it myself), but the option should be there for those who need it.

No one seems willing or able to explain how a very late abortion happens.

theworriedwell

No one seems willing or able to explain how a very late abortion happens.

Search ‘foeticide meaning UK’ theworriedwell, although you may wish you hadn’t.

You're probably right Casdon.

You can easily google it, I did to find out. No surprises, it's as benign as it could possibly be of course. But in the article I posted above, it does make it clear "why".

But Jane is right. Far far more support and help are needed

However, how much of this is relevant to the O/P - except threads are bound to drift of course.