Should men be banned from working in nurseries?

as a mother I would not hand my baby over to a male in a day nursery where he would be changing nappies ect. I just could not'.

Sadly whilst possibly in the majority of cases men are the perpetrator of these type of acts, there are also cases where women have been guilty of the same acts. I don’t therefore think that all men should be tarred with the same brush and banned from the profession, I do however feel that there needs to be more safeguarding practices implemented to protect both the children and the men eliminating the changing/toileting by the caregiver in isolation

'@ Kandinsky
*I’m being completely serious.
How many women worked when their children were babies back in our day ( 50’s / 60’s ) not many.
Women would get a job when the children started school.
I grew up in the 60’s / 70’s - no one I knew had been to a nursery.*

I am gobsmacked. Working when the kids were babies was the norm for me, MIL, my mother, sister and friends

These big nursery chains didn’t even exist.

Council run nurseries did, ever since WW2.

OH went to cr nursery in the 1950's (both parents worked)
My brother went to cr nursery from 6 weeks to age 5, in 1962 (working single mother). My niece went to nursery from 2 months ( working single mother)
My 4 kids all went to nursery from 1975 (in a new purpose- built council nursery staffed by trained nursery teachers and nurses. So did the kids of many of my friends. It was free; and vastly superior in every way to the expensive private nursery my GC went to ( £11 K pa per child)

We were all highly educated well paid independent married women who went to work from when their kids were babies onwards. I had a 12 month old baby when I went back to work (teaching post grad adults, evening class ,husband babysat); my friends with jobs and babies were an and E nurse (nightshifts); a specialist teacher of the deaf, a university lecturer, French teacher. We juggled child care between each other, our partners, nursery.

And despite having intelligent independent mothers (and dads who all changed nappies babysat/ bathed babies and did intimate care), despite going to nursery, our kids all survived , thrived and became happy working parents in turn.

butterandjam

That is quite horrifying! How could that happen? Where were the nursing staff?

Yet another failure by a hospital which was part of the Mid-Staffordshire Healthcare Trust with its well-known scandals.

And before that, there were failures in the treatment of cancer patients, resulting in their premature deaths.

Council run nurseries did, ever since WW2.
I think the nurseries, attached to infant schools, were from the age of 3.
I went to one in the 1940s because my mother worked.
I still remember having to sleep on a little camp bed after lunch.

However, by the 1970s, there were no nurseries when my DC were small, except when we moved to London where they were part of the primary school.
Children went for 2.5 hours per day, no time for a mother to work.

Goodness, I can hardly believe what I am reading! My daughter is a highly qualified anaesthetist with years of training behind her, at 36 she's pregnant with her first child. Are people really suggesting that she should stay home to do childcare until her child goes to school? What about if she has a second child? Her partner, who is male, wants to work part time and do his share of childcare. They are intending to work around my daughter's irregular hospital shifts, his ability to work part time and regular part time childcare at a local nursery. Are people genuinely concerned that her partner might be a paedophile, he's male and wants to look after a baby and will be changing nappies! There's obviously something wrong with him as he's prepared to take a pay cut to look after his child, just like many women are forced to do! The baby might be exposed to male childcare workers at nursery! Goodness I feel as if I've stepped into the last century!

foxie48 I hope all goes well for your daughter.
We know many couples who have made the same choice.

I find this thread quite unbelievable in its anti male attitude.

No wonder our young men are finding it difficult to accept their place in society.

Galaxy is correct, men are more likely to sexually abuse children than are women.
Enhanced checks already include relevant police fwins, allegations and convictions, as well as checking social media of applicants. This helps but gives no guarantee. People who are sexually attracted to infants and children are usually skilled at hiding this

CCTV, intimate care filmed and maybe two staff, though we also know perpetrators find each other.

CCTV, intimate care filmed
I'll it again, and again.
This is not allowed in private areas like toilets or nappy changing stations

ThanksGG13

Galaxy

Because the risk for child sex abuse is higher for males. People do need to understand that. As I say you can accept that the benefits of having male staff outweigh the risk but you can't pretend you aren't increasing the risk.

You should not be increasing the risk if you vet properly, and carry out daily processes correctly. No adult should be alone with a child who is not related, not only for the child's protection, but to safeguard adult from accusations.

foxie48

Goodness, I can hardly believe what I am reading! My daughter is a highly qualified anaesthetist with years of training behind her, at 36 she's pregnant with her first child. Are people really suggesting that she should stay home to do childcare until her child goes to school? What about if she has a second child? Her partner, who is male, wants to work part time and do his share of childcare. They are intending to work around my daughter's irregular hospital shifts, his ability to work part time and regular part time childcare at a local nursery. Are people genuinely concerned that her partner might be a paedophile, he's male and wants to look after a baby and will be changing nappies! There's obviously something wrong with him as he's prepared to take a pay cut to look after his child, just like many women are forced to do! The baby might be exposed to male childcare workers at nursery! Goodness I feel as if I've stepped into the last century!

Goodness no!

But obviously you have not worked in an environment when you come across horrific cases of child sex abuse by males and very occasionally females on a regular basis.

Most do not hit the headlines like this case has done.

He's the father, so hardly the same thing, so keep your hair on!

Do people suggesting intimate care should be filmed have any idea of safeguarding.

Obviously not. Never!
Who in their right mind would allow the filming of a child's bottom or genitals?

Filming? We aren’t even allowed to use phones/cameras in school, never mind nursery.

Yes, let's try to put aside the suggestion of CCTV usage, as it would be illegal.
More effective checks?
The Police force has strong vetting, allegedly, but 'bad eggs' have managed to get through. Does it depend on who is administering the check?
Does anyone know if this individual's social media was checked before employment?
Did the nursery have the practice of two workers ar a time, for intimate care?
Did these crimes happen because they were short staffed?

So generally in pre school rooms there are two members of staff, that is fairly standard practice,
The ratios for three year olds are 1:13. So two members of staff more than meets requirements if you have say 15 children. The ratios for 2 year olds are higher.

Yes ...

My point being if two staff are with a child toileting there would be zero staff with the other children.

Without taking the discussion away from the OP's direction, but yet to answer questions ....

Things are complicated. There's a certain amount of discrepancy in the practical guidelines, because it is difficult to balance privacy with safeguarding and the need for support.

A lot can depend on the actual fabric of the building and where toilet areas are situated. Unless money is readily available, you can't just go redesigning spaces with more open access or change layouts to make such activities more visible to everyone.

I don't think that two workers at a time need to be involved in intimate care, and that's not possible anyway given staff:children ratios. But at least the caregiver should inform another staff member at the time, and the changing area should be visible and audible.

I’ve worked in a nursery for 24 years and we haven’t had any male nursery practitioners till now. I’m working with a young lad now who is a big hit with the children and just as any female staff would be supervised during training and beyond he has been looked after. The nursery industry at the moment is going through a staff crisis and the average age of recruits has gone down to age 17/18 so unless this changes young staff whether they are male or female will be the only staff applying for jobs. Glad I’m retiring.

I’m not for filming in nurseries but some have cameras in strategic points to allow oversights. I don’t see how the yiung female nursery worker could have punched and hurt infants if cameras had allowed supervisors to check in regulularly

Galaxy I think you have misread the ratios of staff to children.
Under 2 is 1:3
Under 3 is 1:5
and over 3 is 1:8 but with a gradute lead can increase to 1:13.
These are minimum staffing ratios

Due to ratios it is impossible to have two workers supervising nappy changes. I work in 3/4 year room which now takes 2/ half ages as well. My ratio is 1-8 two of us in a nappy change area would take the ratio down as two of us look after 16 children. Because of children wearing nappies some till school starts we have nappy changes all day. Plus toilet training and wee mishaps is a nightmare. I will retire with a very bad back. The industry especially the private sector will be diminishing as stress and other factors continue.