Should men be banned from working in nurseries?

LemonJam

Galaxy- Do you know the figures captured by the Crown Prosecution service, say for last 5 years period available, of child sex abuse of nursery age children by male and female nursery workers? If so what proportion were male compared to female?

This post is not about all the broad categories of child sex abuse of children 10 to 18. It is specific to nursery age children whilst being cared for in a nursery setting- a very much smaller sample.

I have not been able to find such data so find it hard to accept an assertion that men present a 97% risk as nursery workers of abusing small children in their care- it doesn't match with the news paper headlines I've read.

I have not been able to find such data so find it hard to accept an assertion that men present a 97% risk as nursery workers of abusing small children in their care- it doesn't match with the news paper headlines I've read.

No-one is saying that.

Talking about the offending rates of men does not indicate a hatred of men. Sorry but that is just nonsense that has always been thrown at feminists. It usnt helpful. I don't think there is any evidence that men within childcare are a special group of men, in fact deciding that they are a special group of men goes against all safeguarding advice.

Allira 17.07 " No One is saying that".Galaxy 15.03: "I have mixed views about nurseries but statistically men are more likely to commit sexual abuse of children, people need to understand that".

Galaxy 15.26: "Of the top of my head, i think men commit 97 % of child sexual abuse".

16.04 post Galaxy "Because the risk for child sex abuse is higher for males. People do need to understand that. As I say you can accept that the benefits of having male staff outweigh the risk but you can't pretend you aren't increasing the risk".

I can find no data or evidence that male nursery workers present a higher risk than female workers of carrying out sexual abuse on the children in their care and if so what percentage higher risk. I can find no data that men commit 97% of child sex abuse either. I could find that the BBC reported that there had been a 80% increase of reports of sexual offences by women against children. I also could find that the ONS does not have data regarding sex offences committed by male and female workers in a nursery setting and that the ONS advised making a FOI request to the Home Office for such data, if it exists.

Meanwhile I rely on my own observations and evidence provided by others that sex abuse of young children in nurseries in carried out by males and females.

A word of support for Galaxy who imo is at risk of being castigated as feminists were when we raised domestic and sexual abuse in the 70’s.
Stating that women and children are more likely to be abused by men, than by other women isn’t an indicator of that awful woman, the man hater. It’s simply stating facts.

To reassure you Iam64, I do not believe Galaxy is a man hater and would never suggest that.

I am seeking to verify facts, particularly in relation to male and female workers in nurseries to see whether it is possible to establish some understanding of the level of RISK Galaxy asserts.

It is a fact that both male and female workers have been convicted of sexual abuse against children in their nursery care- but what if any for example is the comparative difference.

Thankyou Iam64. I thought I had entered a separate universe.
I think it is embezzlement that is committed mostly by women. That
statement doesn't mean I hate
women.
Most violent crimes are committed by men, when it comes to violent sexual crimes the difference between sexes is significant. This doesn't mean all men will commit these crimes ( in fact it is a small group) unfortunately they don't tend to announce their tendencies until someone is hurt.

The stats I looked at suggest steady increase in allegations against women in recent years. This isn’t surprising given the focus on csa in our media and way people are more willing to talk about their abuse

I’m out of date thanks to retirement but our training suggested female sex offenders often acted under influence of a male partner. Thst was the case with Myra Hindley and G Maxwell. Vanessa George had no sexual interest in children until she met Colin Blanchard on line. She claimed he encouraged her to abuse children and take images to please him.

It’s under researched, maybe because it’s been under reported.

I would welcome any such comparative risk data but meanwhile, if not available, I'll continue with my view that the care of children in nurseries is about abuse not gender. I think there is a place for male and female nursery workers, the key issues for me are recruitment, monitoring, governance and safe working practices.

No they don't announce their crimes as I fund out for myself to my cost,

but why bar them as a whole group from childcare, Galaxy I don't get it.

A feminist like you I am committed to trying to change men, challenge those that are beyond the pale....from the 1970's there was a commitment to try and get men to be able to feel emotions and to become more caring, not to bottle it all up toward suicide, know how to love and care for the vulnerable including children, and so on, and I imagine you've practised that in your life with the men you know?

I don't think it was childcare in general so it was a very specific article with regard to nursery work, as I say I have mixed feelings about it, and have certainly managed men within care all my life.
Discussing offending rates isnt or shouldnt be hurtful, otherwise we would all be crying about the women who carry out embezzlement.

As a qualified health professional, who has worked in the NHS for many years- there is a need for both female and male workers. The NHS doesn't exclude male workers from working with children, including pre school age children, or any other care settings, indeed that would be illegal.

I agree with Galaxy's comment 17.18, that men within childcare are not a special group of men and to treat them as such goes against all safeguarding advice.

I also agree with Galaxy’s view that men in child are (social work, teaching, health) shouldn’t be treated or viewed as ‘special’. People drawn to that kind of work rarely do it expecting big salaries or an easy work life balance.

Anecdotally, the best sw teams I worked on or managed had a real mix of women, men, various ethnicities, faiths, life experience, gay/lesbian, single, with children, childless and more. We had enthusiastic young graduates with limited life experience, retired vicars, engineers, hair dressers, admin staff who thought hello, I could do this job. Our local authorities or the home office for trainee probation officers paid our graining fees. Imagine that.
We need healthier work environments, where people get to know each other

LemonJam

Allira 17.07 " No One is saying that".Galaxy 15.03: "I have mixed views about nurseries but statistically men are more likely to commit sexual abuse of children, people need to understand that".

Galaxy 15.26: "Of the top of my head, i think men commit 97 % of child sexual abuse".

16.04 post Galaxy "Because the risk for child sex abuse is higher for males. People do need to understand that. As I say you can accept that the benefits of having male staff outweigh the risk but you can't pretend you aren't increasing the risk".

I can find no data or evidence that male nursery workers present a higher risk than female workers of carrying out sexual abuse on the children in their care and if so what percentage higher risk. I can find no data that men commit 97% of child sex abuse either. I could find that the BBC reported that there had been a 80% increase of reports of sexual offences by women against children. I also could find that the ONS does not have data regarding sex offences committed by male and female workers in a nursery setting and that the ONS advised making a FOI request to the Home Office for such data, if it exists.

Meanwhile I rely on my own observations and evidence provided by others that sex abuse of young children in nurseries in carried out by males and females.

You do not seem to understand proportionality, lemonjam.

In context of this post Allira do you actually understand proportionately?

This may help:
Proportionally and proportionately are synonyms meaning "in proportion" or "correspondingly," used to describe things changing at the same rate or in a consistent ratio, with proportional being far more common in general use, especially in math/science, while proportionate sometimes carries a nuance of fairness or being "properly" sized (e.g., "disproportionate burden"). For everyday writing, you can use them interchangeably, but lean towards proportionally/proportional for mathematical contexts and proportionate for judgments of fairness.

Key Differences & Nuances
Interchangeable: Most dictionaries treat them as identical; they both mean "in due proportion".
Proportionally (Math/Science): Emphasises a fixed, constant ratio or direct relationship (e.g., doubling ingredients).
Example: "The budget should be divided proportionally by department size".

Proportionately (Fairness/Judgment): Often used when describing a qualitative sense of being appropriate, balanced, or just, especially in negative forms like "disproportionate".Example: "The punishment should be proportionate to the crime" (implies fairness).

For judgments of fairness: "Proportionate" (e.g., "a proportionate response," "a disproportionate impact") highlights appropriateness or justice.


bluebell thank you any intimate should be 2people
gynos dentists nursury,even blood test
all appointment are 2 people
the dentist that was doing his job wrong and other people saw it and stopped him

I believe that over 90% of all attacks /abuse of women are by white British males !
That doesn,t mean that over 90%ofwhite British males will attack or abuse women .
Nor does it mean that 97%of nursery staff who are males will abuse children .
Some of the best nursery staff my children had were young mem including one amazing young man who worked in theSCBU in the 10weeks my son was there .
Some / a few men who work with children are abusers the same as some priests and ministers and some doctors and teachers some men right across all jobs …do you want to ban men from daily life
I feel very sad that the wonderful men in my life who loved and do love children will feel they can’t interact with wee people for fear of being called “ pedophiles” and I.m not exaggerating my late father in law had a wonderful rapport with every child he ever met as does my husband .
97% of the small number working in nurseries is minuscule in comparison to the small % of women abusers in the same job .
Don’t chase the good guys away just do the research before hiring them ,children need men in their lives

It's interesting to see statistics but when local police did a safety talk when DD was in sixth form they warned the girls about the high number of attacks on girls by girls. Apparently being classed in the face was t unusual with girls being badly scarred. I wonder if that was a local thing.

Glassed in the face not classed.