Should men be banned from working in nurseries?

Yes ...

So generally in pre school rooms there are two members of staff, that is fairly standard practice,
The ratios for three year olds are 1:13. So two members of staff more than meets requirements if you have say 15 children. The ratios for 2 year olds are higher.

Yes, let's try to put aside the suggestion of CCTV usage, as it would be illegal.
More effective checks?
The Police force has strong vetting, allegedly, but 'bad eggs' have managed to get through. Does it depend on who is administering the check?
Does anyone know if this individual's social media was checked before employment?
Did the nursery have the practice of two workers ar a time, for intimate care?
Did these crimes happen because they were short staffed?

Filming? We aren’t even allowed to use phones/cameras in school, never mind nursery.

Obviously not. Never!
Who in their right mind would allow the filming of a child's bottom or genitals?

Do people suggesting intimate care should be filmed have any idea of safeguarding.

He's the father, so hardly the same thing, so keep your hair on!

foxie48

Goodness, I can hardly believe what I am reading! My daughter is a highly qualified anaesthetist with years of training behind her, at 36 she's pregnant with her first child. Are people really suggesting that she should stay home to do childcare until her child goes to school? What about if she has a second child? Her partner, who is male, wants to work part time and do his share of childcare. They are intending to work around my daughter's irregular hospital shifts, his ability to work part time and regular part time childcare at a local nursery. Are people genuinely concerned that her partner might be a paedophile, he's male and wants to look after a baby and will be changing nappies! There's obviously something wrong with him as he's prepared to take a pay cut to look after his child, just like many women are forced to do! The baby might be exposed to male childcare workers at nursery! Goodness I feel as if I've stepped into the last century!

Goodness no!

But obviously you have not worked in an environment when you come across horrific cases of child sex abuse by males and very occasionally females on a regular basis.

Most do not hit the headlines like this case has done.

Galaxy

Because the risk for child sex abuse is higher for males. People do need to understand that. As I say you can accept that the benefits of having male staff outweigh the risk but you can't pretend you aren't increasing the risk.

You should not be increasing the risk if you vet properly, and carry out daily processes correctly. No adult should be alone with a child who is not related, not only for the child's protection, but to safeguard adult from accusations.

ThanksGG13

CCTV, intimate care filmed
I'll it again, and again.
This is not allowed in private areas like toilets or nappy changing stations

Galaxy is correct, men are more likely to sexually abuse children than are women.
Enhanced checks already include relevant police fwins, allegations and convictions, as well as checking social media of applicants. This helps but gives no guarantee. People who are sexually attracted to infants and children are usually skilled at hiding this

CCTV, intimate care filmed and maybe two staff, though we also know perpetrators find each other.

foxie48 I hope all goes well for your daughter.
We know many couples who have made the same choice.

I find this thread quite unbelievable in its anti male attitude.

No wonder our young men are finding it difficult to accept their place in society.

Goodness, I can hardly believe what I am reading! My daughter is a highly qualified anaesthetist with years of training behind her, at 36 she's pregnant with her first child. Are people really suggesting that she should stay home to do childcare until her child goes to school? What about if she has a second child? Her partner, who is male, wants to work part time and do his share of childcare. They are intending to work around my daughter's irregular hospital shifts, his ability to work part time and regular part time childcare at a local nursery. Are people genuinely concerned that her partner might be a paedophile, he's male and wants to look after a baby and will be changing nappies! There's obviously something wrong with him as he's prepared to take a pay cut to look after his child, just like many women are forced to do! The baby might be exposed to male childcare workers at nursery! Goodness I feel as if I've stepped into the last century!

Council run nurseries did, ever since WW2.
I think the nurseries, attached to infant schools, were from the age of 3.
I went to one in the 1940s because my mother worked.
I still remember having to sleep on a little camp bed after lunch.

However, by the 1970s, there were no nurseries when my DC were small, except when we moved to London where they were part of the primary school.
Children went for 2.5 hours per day, no time for a mother to work.

butterandjam

That is quite horrifying! How could that happen? Where were the nursing staff?

Yet another failure by a hospital which was part of the Mid-Staffordshire Healthcare Trust with its well-known scandals.

And before that, there were failures in the treatment of cancer patients, resulting in their premature deaths.

'@ Kandinsky
*I’m being completely serious.
How many women worked when their children were babies back in our day ( 50’s / 60’s ) not many.
Women would get a job when the children started school.
I grew up in the 60’s / 70’s - no one I knew had been to a nursery.*

I am gobsmacked. Working when the kids were babies was the norm for me, MIL, my mother, sister and friends

These big nursery chains didn’t even exist.

Council run nurseries did, ever since WW2.

OH went to cr nursery in the 1950's (both parents worked)
My brother went to cr nursery from 6 weeks to age 5, in 1962 (working single mother). My niece went to nursery from 2 months ( working single mother)
My 4 kids all went to nursery from 1975 (in a new purpose- built council nursery staffed by trained nursery teachers and nurses. So did the kids of many of my friends. It was free; and vastly superior in every way to the expensive private nursery my GC went to ( £11 K pa per child)

We were all highly educated well paid independent married women who went to work from when their kids were babies onwards. I had a 12 month old baby when I went back to work (teaching post grad adults, evening class ,husband babysat); my friends with jobs and babies were an and E nurse (nightshifts); a specialist teacher of the deaf, a university lecturer, French teacher. We juggled child care between each other, our partners, nursery.

And despite having intelligent independent mothers (and dads who all changed nappies babysat/ bathed babies and did intimate care), despite going to nursery, our kids all survived , thrived and became happy working parents in turn.

Sadly whilst possibly in the majority of cases men are the perpetrator of these type of acts, there are also cases where women have been guilty of the same acts. I don’t therefore think that all men should be tarred with the same brush and banned from the profession, I do however feel that there needs to be more safeguarding practices implemented to protect both the children and the men eliminating the changing/toileting by the caregiver in isolation

as a mother I would not hand my baby over to a male in a day nursery where he would be changing nappies ect. I just could not'.

I've worked in nursery s In one with outstanding from Ofsted I saw awful bullying from female in charge I think their should be cameras around nursery s and two staff involved in taking children to the toilet It should also be easier for those working in nursery s to be able to inform Ofsted of concerns but be able to remain anonymous

I wasn't advocating the ban.

I totally agree with you. I would never have let my children go to a nursery with any male staff. Some of the things that have happened are truly sickening.

lemsip

the thousands of male doctors nurses paediatricians ect would not have been working in day nurseries in the local towns ! they would all have more intelligence

abusive medics could do it at work in some small town hospital, how "intelligent" is that?

today's news

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdd5z3qdjv4o

A doctor has been charged with sexually assaulting 38 patients while working at major hospitals in the West Midlands, the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) has said.

Nathaniel Spencer, 38, of Quinton, Birmingham, has been charged with 15 counts of sexual assault, 17 counts of assault by penetration and nine counts of sexual assault of a child under 13.

Mr Spencer also faces three counts of assault of a child under 13 by penetration, and one count of attempting to assault by penetration.

Kandinsky

I’m being completely serious.
How many women worked when their children were babies back in our day ( 50’s / 60’s ) not many.
Women would get a job when the children started school.
I grew up in the 60’s / 70’s - no one I knew had been to a nursery. These big nursery chains didn’t even exist.
It was the Thatcher era that changed everything. We suddenly wanted more so that meant both parents working.
I personally don’t think children should be anywhere other than with their parents until they’re around 4 years old.
Nursery is not necessary.

I totally agree. When my children were born in the 70s I stayed at home. I would never have considered leaving them with anyone except my husband or our parents. And to the poster who said I was lucky to be the only person to change my children’s nappies - yes, and this was because we accepted being poor which meant cooking from scratch, eating hardly any meat and walking to save bus fares. I had a 2nd-hand twin-tub washing machine and used towelling nappies. The children’s clothes were 2nd-hand unless my parents bought them. Sorry but most of today’s parents would not be prepared to live the way we did.

Just seen on the BBC news that a 38 year old doctor has been charged with sexual assault on children so should we ban male doctors working with children ? Of course not