ID cards at long last

A phone would be more secure though, wouldn't it? No one can steal my id without scanning my fingerprint.

Errrrm......you personally (ie your body) will be much more secure if there's no question of scanning your fingerprint.

Yep...there's definitely a noticeable number of people who are out there and would think "Not a problem - if I've got a finger from her...then I can find a way to use it to get a fingerprint" (at least for a few days iyswim). You've just identified that you're probably a nice person - and nice people don't think just what lengths someone else might go to.....
Oh heck, I have facial recognition on my phone and you have got me worried now.

Watching Lisa Nandy struggle to explain what would happen if people just said no was fun.

Your life is already on your smartphone you and be tracked and hacked today it would just add a more accessible ID.

I have to tell you, David that you are wrong (what a surprise). Part of my life might be on my smart phone but part of it isn't. I don't have it synched to my other, more heavily used, devices, and I avoid 'apps' like the plague. I do as little as I possibly can with it apart from phone calls and messaging...
I really mistrust IT and think we should stop letting it rule...

They are now saying they won’t be compulsory unless you want a job. However as people now having to keep working for longer as pension age keeps rising older people will still be affected. Seems a pointless waste of money, an infringement of civil liberties, which is not going to stop illegal migration.

Its interesting that the USA does not have any nationally issued ID card, although many states have one. Because public transport is poor outside large cities almost everyone has a driving lisence and uses that for ID. Only 48% of Americans have a passport as opposed to 86% of Brits (census statistics)

He’s speaking now.
The status quo hasn’t worked for working people.
Well that’s right.
Security and opportunity for working people.
That would be good news.

We’ve been squeamish about saying things that are clearly true. That’s certainly been true in government for a long time.

Obviously it would help if they're only really going to focus on the working agegroup - and not us retired people. So I'm thinking personally - "Well most of my bills come out as direct debits and my house is my own and not even a mortgage on it thankfully these days" and so those things would continue to be sorted. But not even all bills - eg my plumber whenever I require him around or odd jobs and things I pay cash for if these people started to demand my ID. But they don't know me when it comes to paying for my ticket at some social events for instance. Even at things where they do know me - if "They" decided to impose another Lockdown at any point I might find them saying "Sorry Cariad and we cant see a way to get round a demand to produce this for your ticket - and so must then send you back out because you're breaking Lockdown". I live in the "back of beyond" where "best party ever (ie about 200 people)" was at a time when the Wales limit was 30, where I just swopped to a temporary hairdresser at home and she and I both breathed a sigh of relief that neither of us was going to follow Lockdown rules within my own four walls and it made life easier than it probably would have been back in a city (even though it was my own city).

But I do see people saying "They might be (mis)used against us for carbon rationing purposes" and this is an issue if it would. If "They" had a record of every single purchase we made - they'd be able to track us around the country and ration what we purchase. Obviously many of our purchases can be "tracked" - but not the ones we pay in cash. I don't know how the wealthy and "powerful" would find ways to carry on their high-level consumption - but I bet they would and they'd find methods to make accessing that way impossible for us to copy.

But the thought they might be used to send us an electronic message of "You can't buy that - you've used up your carbon ration" and that is a thing I feel very unsure about and wouldnt put it past them to do that. Now I know a lot of people over-consume and I can see the point there - "No you don't need a 3rd holiday this year, you don't need a second home, you don't need to buy new clothes just because the fashion has changed etc" but I do wonder if they'd use this against us to stop what they define as "over-consuming".

The thing that makes me nervous is many years back now I recall doing one of those quizzes of "How many planets are you using?" - ie to see if we were using more than one planet worth and overdoing it.

So I confidently started doing it - thinking "I'll be fine and within one planet. I've got one small house, no car, no children, vegetarian. There's no way anyone could say I'm having excess consumption". But the quiz said I was!!!!!!

Fortunately I realized that they would have based those questions on every household having at least two people living in it and so I redid the quiz and pretended to be married. I was putting in the exact same answers as I had before - ie my low consumption level - but I stated I was married and the quiz then divided my consumption out and said I was within one planet worth of consumption and I passed the test at that point. Cue for me thinking "I ain't sharing my house against my will with someone else just to suit you and your 'no-one is allowed to be single' thing you've got in your head" in order not to be deemed as over-consuming. If I wouldn't be as a married woman = I'm not over-consuming...

So yep....and the thought of this getting misused to track our purchases and then having a go at us if we're doing nothing wrong....and not over-consuming at all....but we're single is an issue that concerns me.

We would need assurance that They:
- wouldnt use our ID against us for carbon rationing
- wouldnt use our ID against us for any further Lockdown they ever decide to have

and I can't see them giving us those assurances - as they'd want to keep their options open as to whether to restrict us if they wanted to.

So I recognise that anyone taking just one look at me from across the street anywhere I am would instantly recognise:
a. I'm British by anyone's definition
b. I'm retirement age group

and I'd be a lot less likely to be asked for ID and would be showing obvious "surprise" and asking back "Why are you asking me? That's not what this is meant for. Take a good look at me and then walk away apologising - you can see I'm not who you're after".

We know that the three most quoted reasons why migrants choose the UK over France are language, family and the fact that there are no identity cards. This makes it possible to live and work under the radar.
Therefore if the UK does have ID cards it should act as a deterrent to the numbers of migrants crossing the channel.
If ID cards on phones are not appropriate for a minority of UK citizens then the cards we have with photos and embedded fingerprints in France should be possible.

Mamie

We know that the three most quoted reasons why migrants choose the UK over France are language, family and the fact that there are no identity cards. This makes it possible to live and work under the radar.
Therefore if the UK does have ID cards it should act as a deterrent to the numbers of migrants crossing the channel.
If ID cards on phones are not appropriate for a minority of UK citizens then the cards we have with photos and embedded fingerprints in France should be possible.

Does France come up against the same number of “you can’t make me” responses to ID cards?

I have absolutely no objection to them at all and would be happy to have one as long as it's not mandatory or the law; it should be the person's own individual choice whether they have it or not. But the idea itself, I'm fine with!

MaizieD

^Your life is already on your smartphone you and be tracked and hacked today it would just add a more accessible ID.^

I have to tell you, David that you are wrong (what a surprise). Part of my life might be on my smart phone but part of it isn't. I don't have it synched to my other, more heavily used, devices, and I avoid 'apps' like the plague. I do as little as I possibly can with it apart from phone calls and messaging...
I really mistrust IT and think we should stop letting it rule...

You are not typical, I’d don’t have all my life on the smartphone and I don’t have an online profile, but I do have my NHS details, my online banking and Apple Pay on my phone, a great many others have much more.

Once authorities have your phone number you can be tracked that’s a fact of life, they would find it very boring tracking me but there are thousands that are tracked every day, IDs just make it easier to prove you don’t have any bad intent.

I was thinking the same thing, Mamieabout the lack of identity cards being one of the attractions for migrants to the UK. Taking away that attraction is surely welcomed by anyone who is dedicated to stopping the boats.

Mollygo

Mamie

We know that the three most quoted reasons why migrants choose the UK over France are language, family and the fact that there are no identity cards. This makes it possible to live and work under the radar.
Therefore if the UK does have ID cards it should act as a deterrent to the numbers of migrants crossing the channel.
If ID cards on phones are not appropriate for a minority of UK citizens then the cards we have with photos and embedded fingerprints in France should be possible.

Does France come up against the same number of “you can’t make me” responses to ID cards?

Absolutely not. They have been an integral part of life in France for decades. If you want to go to school, enter the health system, vote, buy or rent accommodation, work, get a driving licence etc etc you need one. You have to carry your card at all times. We used our passports before Brexit, but since then we have been required to have identity cards to prove that we have the right to live here.
When I was teaching English to a group of pensioners they thought that children having to wear school uniform was a far greater infringement of human rights than identity cards and were shocked that the UK did not have them!

I'd be happy to have one as long as it wasn't digital. Having just spent 2 weeks in the Lake District where mobile signals can be patchy, I wonder if that has been considered.

If the administration of ID cards is contracted out to the likes of SERCO then God alone knows who they'll being selling the info to...........

Retroladywriting

I'd be happy to have one as long as it wasn't digital. Having just spent 2 weeks in the Lake District where mobile signals can be patchy, I wonder if that has been considered.

Not just the Lake District. Here in West Wales lack of mobile phone coverage is a PITA often for people here.

I don't see why not having a signal would present a problem.

Retroladywriting

I'd be happy to have one as long as it wasn't digital. Having just spent 2 weeks in the Lake District where mobile signals can be patchy, I wonder if that has been considered.

I have stored photographs of both sides of my ID card on my phone. In the unlikely event of being stopped by the police in an area without a signal, I imagine one would simply be asked to present it at a later date.

Store your UD card in your phones wallet, you do not need a phone signal to open or view.

I really don’t see why, if a system works well in other countries, it couldn’t work equally well in the UK. Some people have strong objections, but for most people I don’t think that’s the issue, rather it is the fear of change. If it’s introduced for working age adults first though, the glitches will surely be ironed out before we are issued with them?

David49

MaizieD

Your life is already on your smartphone you and be tracked and hacked today it would just add a more accessible ID.

I have to tell you, David that you are wrong (what a surprise). Part of my life might be on my smart phone but part of it isn't. I don't have it synched to my other, more heavily used, devices, and I avoid 'apps' like the plague. I do as little as I possibly can with it apart from phone calls and messaging...
I really mistrust IT and think we should stop letting it rule...

You are not typical, I’d don’t have all my life on the smartphone and I don’t have an online profile, but I do have my NHS details, my online banking and Apple Pay on my phone, a great many others have much more.

Once authorities have your phone number you can be tracked that’s a fact of life, they would find it very boring tracking me but there are thousands that are tracked every day, IDs just make it easier to prove you don’t have any bad intent.

I was recently tracked by a pension company which had bought a pension scheme I paid into briefly when I was in my 20s. I'd completely lost track of it and forgotten all about it. I don't even know how much I paid in, but it can't have been much. Fast forward fifty years and I've now received a lump sum and a small amount every month to supplement my pension. I have no idea how I was actually tracked, but I guess it involved my NI number and the electoral roll. This is not new centrally held information.

And ID won't make even a dent in the illegal migrant numbers - they will still carry on pitching up on the Kent coast and vanishing into the Black economy. There are, I'm sure, many shyster employers prepared to turn a blind eye to any rules.

GrannyGravy13

The PM is making an announcement on this around 11pm today apparently.

I’ll be in bed. 😂

StripeyGran

FriedGreenTomatoes2

I had to laugh. My cousin just messaged me “so rubber boats of unknowns turn up on the shores and as a taxpayer suddenly I'm the problem? Foxtrot Oscar.”

He or she must be cut from the same cloth as yourself then.

Probably. He’s lovely! 💙