Let’s get real about migration

Caring, as opposed to nursing, has never been a profession that attracted many young people though. I can understand why, because carers carry a heavy burden of responsibility, and life experience is so important when dealing with others in a one to one situation. Historically it was middle aged women who made up the bulk of carers, but for a multitude of reasons, less are available then in the past. .

Oreo I agree, some younger people want an Instagram career and veto the caring professions at the get go.

The Blair administration was so focused on getting more people into Universities, that many of these professions needed to sustain a caring society were downgraded and dismissed.

MaizieD

^I may be wrong but I get the feeling that there are uk citizens who feel that the caring professions are below them. (I don’t mean to insult anyone, I hope you understand)^

Of course, it might also be that that some people think the caring professions are too badly remunerated to be considered...

I’m a care worker, a shift worker, I consider it a worthy job to do and I’m not badly paid, nor are the other care workers I know.
Maybe some are behind the times on this.

"So the question is, how do we deal with the existing problems of housing, homelessness, food banks, child poverty, etc. whilst needing to fund the additional number of people wanting to live in the UK?"

OK! At least this is being discussed rationally now. Dig a bit deeper. You'll find that the UK isn't funding the additional number of people wanting to live in the UK.

For a start, a significant number of those people are students, who have no recourse to public funds. They usually pay about three times the amount home students do for their fees. They're actually subsidising UK students and propping up a number of universities and providing employment for all the people who work in them.

Many other immigrants work for the NHS. Without them, the NHS would be in an even worse state. The irony is that, in addition to paying income tax and National Insurance, these people have to pay an immigration health surcharge (£3,105 for a 3-year visa) as part of their application process.

It would be interesting to see a full break-down of the cost of immigrants to the UK.

I think there’s a lot more to it than just that MaizieD. Unsocial hours, travel between clients, and above all the nature of the job, with the sense carers have of falling short constantly in delivering the help people really need also put people off.

I may be wrong but I get the feeling that there are uk citizens who feel that the caring professions are below them. (I don’t mean to insult anyone, I hope you understand)

Of course, it might also be that that some people think the caring professions are too badly remunerated to be considered...

I think you’re right regarding the caring professions being seen as lowly by British citizens GrannyGravy13, likewise labouring and farm worker roles. Either that attitude has to be turned around, or we have to accept that first generation migrants will always be required to fill those roles going forward, as the children they have will also inherit our values.

growstuff

Fine, let’s talk about all immigrants, not just vague unquantified percentages, but also actual numbers.

E.g. in 2024, 948,000 people arrived in the UK expecting to stay for at least a year. Of these, 13% were asylum seekers or refugees, i.e. 122,000, meaning approximately 826,000 immigrants other than asylum seekers and refugees arrived in the UK.
This figure is based on the overall number of arrivals in 2024, minus the portion who were asylum seekers or refugees.
So the question is, how do we deal with the existing problems of housing, homelessness, food banks, child poverty, etc. whilst needing to fund the additional number of people wanting to live in the UK?

Casdon

Your second and third paragraphs are working against each other GrannyGravy13. If only those who meet the points system requirements, which are for shortage professions, are allowed into the UK, nobody will be allowed in ‘who is prepared to do the jobs that immigrants do’, so the only alternative is for UK citizens to do those jobs. That’s one of the key things I think we could usefully discuss?

I see what you mean.

There needs to be a change in the way some jobs are rated/respected.

I may be wrong but I get the feeling that there are uk citizens who feel that the caring professions are below them. (I don’t mean to insult anyone, I hope you understand)

I currently have a house constantly full of East European builders/craftsmen. They applied for leave to remain when we left the EU. They are contracted to a company which specialises in conservation/heritage buildings. There is a shortage of people in this field.

The he world is changing and all countries have to do a lot of rethinking.

Your second and third paragraphs are working against each other GrannyGravy13. If only those who meet the points system requirements, which are for shortage professions, are allowed into the UK, nobody will be allowed in ‘who is prepared to do the jobs that immigrants do’, so the only alternative is for UK citizens to do those jobs. That’s one of the key things I think we could usefully discuss?

The UK needs immigrants.

Have I imagined it or does UK have a sort of points based system and a guarantee of a salary over a certain limit for those wishing to come here through legal channels?

I have no idea how the government/establishment could incentivise home grown citizens to do the jobs that immigrants currently do.

The entire medical system, where UK graduates are unable to get a position needs looking at.

The education system needs to be expanded to include manual careers. Plumbers, electricians, builders etc will always be needed. Many of these professionals are now earning more than graduates ever will.

I keep trying growstuff.

For example, 47% of UK university funding comes from overseas students. Do people think that is the way forward, and relating it back to asylum seekers, do they realise this?

‘The number of asylum claims from people who originally arrived on student visas has increased more than those on other visa types in recent years, with 14,800 asylum claims in the year ending June 2025, though down from a peak of 16,500 in the year to June 2023.’ (Sky News)

Mollygo

Let’s put some numbers on this then.
In the year ending June 2025, 111,084 people claimed asylum in the UK. So 48% = 58,320.
According to the BBC, over 30,000 people have crossed the Channel in small boats so far in (till September) 2025, so a similar percentage means a further 14,400 would be accepted.
So nearly 73,000 per annum, moving to the UK at no cost to the taxpayer?

We’re already hearing about RR’s planned attacks on taxpayers, so not sure about the ^no cost.^

It would appear that you only want to discuss asylum seekers. The OP was calling for a rational, unemotional discussion about immigration as a whole.

Let’s put some numbers on this then.
In the year ending June 2025, 111,084 people claimed asylum in the UK. So 48% = 58,320.
According to the BBC, over 30,000 people have crossed the Channel in small boats so far in (till September) 2025, so a similar percentage means a further 14,400 would be accepted.
So nearly 73,000 per annum, moving to the UK at no cost to the taxpayer?

We’re already hearing about RR’s planned attacks on taxpayers, so not sure about the no cost.

gillsterry

There is a lot on here about jobs for the refugees , i can remember when the factory shifts came to an end there would be hundreds marching out of the gates , now it is all automated by about a dozen people , Robots are taking over industry and there are no longer the jobs to go around so what happens we all go on benefits but how much longer can the Government keep finding the money for the British citizens before the immigrants need benefits as well , where does it all stop before we go bankrupt , who will come to the front of the queue

Look around you. How many potholes need filling? How much litter needs picking up? How many small areas most small towns just look neglected and could do with a makeover?

People could be paid minimum wage to improve their communities or care for their most vulnerable. Money they would be paid would be paid back in taxes either directly or being spent in the economy.

The replacement of jobs by AI is a huge issue - not caused by immigration.

You son't seem to differentiate between immigrants with visas and those without. Many of the perfectly legal immigrants with visas are in the UK because they are doing jobs which aren't being filled by UK citizens. Sometimes it's because UK citizens won't work for such low wages and poor conditions; sometimes there just aren't enough people with appropriate skills.

There is a lot on here about jobs for the refugees , i can remember when the factory shifts came to an end there would be hundreds marching out of the gates , now it is all automated by about a dozen people , Robots are taking over industry and there are no longer the jobs to go around so what happens we all go on benefits but how much longer can the Government keep finding the money for the British citizens before the immigrants need benefits as well , where does it all stop before we go bankrupt , who will come to the front of the queue

And when their asylum claims are rejected, they won’t bother to try the boats

Currently, 48% of asylum claims in the UK are accepted at the initial stage.

Presumably a similar number would be accepted via a legitimate route.

Even if everyone whose claim was rejected turned to the people smugglers, the numbers doing so would obviously be drastically reduced from those currently taking that dangerous route.

Also, those entering the country via the legitimate route would be at no cost to the taxpayer and would be able to seek employment immediately on arrival.

I ask again mollygo, what is your suggestion to the issue of asylum seekers?

StripeyGran

Australia often comes up as some wonderous system. They don't put up with it there and all that.

The Australian Government does like to know who is in the country, yes. Is that not sensible?
However, the system is not infallible and there are thousands of people who have overstayed their visas.

People can go there through the Migration programme or the Refugee and Humanitarian Programme.

Eloethan

Someone lauded Australia's strict immigration policies.

I find that ironic, given that the only reason Australia has its current population is that white people invaded it, slaughtered vast numbers of its original inhabitants and destroyed the culture and lives of those that survived. Remember the £10 poms? Only white settlers were welcomed into Australia at that time and the original inhabitants continued to be completely outnumbered and dispossessed.

Maybe we should count ourselves comparatively lucky.

That was then.

The immigration statistics now are completely different.

Strangely enough, I don't know many Australians who are descended from British immigrants although I know there must be as at one time they constituted the majority of immigrants. However, that is no longer the case.

LizzieDrip

^What guarantee is there of your Far fewer boat crossings?^

Of course, there are no absolute guarantees about most things in life.

However, if people can claim asylum via a legitimate route, why would they give thousands of £s to smuggling gangs to bring them across the channel in dangerous boats?

And when their asylum claims are rejected, they won’t bother to try the boats?

Do you really think so?

Or will all the asylum seekers, boats or not be granted asylum?

petra

Grantonow
It wasn’t just the lowest socioeconomic group that lost out.
When the borders opened up in 2004 I had friends who had a very successful office fitting company.
Semi skilled migrants started bidding for this work showing would be customers fake photos of their work.
Long story short my friends company folded. It had taken him years to build up this team of professionals.
He did have a laugh when he heard that a contract he bid for ( Google offices) in Ireland a company he had done work for had hired these cowboys.
The work was so bad they phoned my friend to ask if they could put it right.
He informed them that his highly skilled team had found other work.

Conversely, there were plenty of people who found themselves Polish plumbers, carpenters, etc, who were very happy with their work and overjoyed they had found people would do the work for less.

Australia often comes up as some wonderous system. They don't put up with it there and all that.

Eloethan

Someone lauded Australia's strict immigration policies.

I find that ironic, given that the only reason Australia has its current population is that white people invaded it, slaughtered vast numbers of its original inhabitants and destroyed the culture and lives of those that survived. Remember the £10 poms? Only white settlers were welcomed into Australia at that time and the original inhabitants continued to be completely outnumbered and dispossessed.

Maybe we should count ourselves comparatively lucky.

Totally agree Eloethan.

I do remember the £10 poms.

What guarantee is there of your Far fewer boat crossings?

Of course, there are no absolute guarantees about most things in life.

However, if people can claim asylum via a legitimate route, why would they give thousands of £s to smuggling gangs to bring them across the channel in dangerous boats?

Someone lauded Australia's strict immigration policies.

I find that ironic, given that the only reason Australia has its current population is that white people invaded it, slaughtered vast numbers of its original inhabitants and destroyed the culture and lives of those that survived. Remember the £10 poms? Only white settlers were welcomed into Australia at that time and the original inhabitants continued to be completely outnumbered and dispossessed.

Maybe we should count ourselves comparatively lucky.