Would you fly a flag for your country?

No I would not, unfortunately our flag has become part of the hatred in this country and it doesn’t speak for me I want inclusion and kindness and I do not want to be associated rightly of wrongly with the Far Right with Farage To my Robinson and ilk
When my flag returns to a welcoming, kind flag I will rethink

Same as you telling people they lay themselves open to being assumed racist.

I'm not claiming I speak for everyone; you appear to be.

I don't assume they are racist.

Well, bully for you. I'm afraid we can't all attain your height of perfection.

Do people automatically assume anyone wearing white stilettos are from Essex?

Anyone with a tattoo is a yob (my GP has several)

Are these the same people assuming that anyone defending the English flag must be far right and a racist?

It is the flag of England, and if law abiding citizens are being targeted as racist or far right because they defend the flag of their birth country, I think the problem lies firmly with the accusers.

I am also Irish by heritage and I would fly an Irish flag. Lots of people still fly a Ukrainian flag.

As long as those who are pushing the flying of a UK flag don't become abusively racist, I don't see a problem, I hope I'm right about that because I am rather suspicious about Reform UK.

Not least seeing their desire to pursue fracking if they get elected which is in the news this morning. Along with the abandonment of EU environmental protection, fracking is the last thing we need.

Whitewavemark2

Why?

Why what?

My friends granddaughter, coming up from the South said there were flags all the way up the motorway, hanging from overhead bridges. She said it was an amazing sight.

Matthew Said wrote a very good article in yesterday's STs, I realise he's not the voice that will represent everyone here, which is fine, I don't expect him to. Personally I wouldn't give James O'Brien airtime in my house or have any interest in much of what Owen Jones has to say. However, we all have our favourite journalists and often what Matthew Said has to say resonates with me. His article was subtitled "Ordinary people will no longer stand for being told common sense is 'far right' - and rightly so"

Some of the following points he made which again resonated with me having just read a book about rural India "A strange version of the caste system has emerged in the western world. We are divided into social groups with different beliefs, attitudes and perceived purity. I use the word 'caste' because this metaphor struck me while I was watching coverage of hotels protests last week, The female interviewer - highly educated, middle class, well spoken - was talking to a working class mother holding a placard saying: "Not far right, just a concerned mum" It wasn't the words in their exchange that fascinated me so much as the body language: it reminded me of my father's nation of birth when the Brahmins find themselves near the Dalits . The interviewer looked not as if she were talking to a fellow citizen but an anthropologist talking to a member of a distant tribe" 'What do you have against immigrants?' she asked a bit repulsed 'aren't you showing racism?' he goes on to say "I could at this point bore you with a blizzard of statistics revealing the scale of this divide, I could tell you about geographical segregation between white working classes and educated elites. But none of that would get close to what I believe is going on. For this you need to understand the metaphysics of the caste system. The Dalits are 'untouchable' because they are considered impure. The Brahmins - the highest caste - have traditionally been taught to avoid them out of fear of contamination, They sometimes even flinch when passing nearby. I wonder if we see a version of this in the West today, directed not at working class people as such, but what liberals perceive as their primitive and bigoted world view. You see it when James O'Brien recoils from a working class caller on his radio show who advocates the deportation of asylum seekers. You see it when ordinary people protesting peacefully against illegal migration are ludicrously described as 'extremist' You see it when views held by the majority of British people are labelled 'far right'

Further on in the article he goes on to point out in the context of these two stratas "Think too of Brahaminic leaders like Nicola Sturgeon, Justin Trudeau and Jacinda Arden who won acclaim for prioritising hyper liberal obsessions above real material concerns of their voters - housing, the cost of living, healthcare"

He also points out that Lord Glassman (Blue Labour) recently said "an elite mindset has effectively created a hostile environment for working class people branding them bigoted for thinking completely normal things"

"And this is what makes our age so historically unusual: majority opinion among the 'lower classes' is not just emphatically right but will ultimately prevail over majority opinions of the elites, They are right to think that national borders matter, that love of nation is admirable, that illegal immigrants should be deported, that biological males shouldn't compete in women's sport, that people should be judged on merit, not colour, that western history is broadly admirable, not shaming. It is notable that most well integrated immigrants - like my father - feel this way too, just like my mother's side of the family, who are white working class, patriotic and stupefied by the strange turn of events in which they are demonised for stating the bleedin' obvious.

I know that some readers will say: Reform will betray its voters with unaffordable promises just as Trump will betray his. I broadly agree. But most working class Brits would respond : what do you think happened to us under Labour and the Tories?"

I thought when I saw those flags around our way, I thought it was for Victory in Japan. Not that I think its anything to celebrate, tbh. All those innocent people loosing their lives.

TerriBull I think Matthew Said has hit the nail firmly on its head 👏👏👏

"They are right to think that national borders matter, that love of nation is admirable, that illegal immigrants should be deported, that biological males shouldn't compete in women's sport, that people should be judged on merit, not colour, that western history is broadly admirable, not shaming.
"
Well I actually think the above too, but I wouldn't hang a flag from my house, protest outside a hotel housing asylum seekers or respond to calls to burn one down. There is a huge difference in believing the above and believing that immigration is at the root of the ills of society or that the bad action of one asylum seeker is representative of them all.

No one is going to reclaim the flag of St George as a symbol of national pride whilst organisations like the EDF and Tommy Robinson spread their vile thoughts and fund people to hang flags from their houses and lamp posts.

Further to my post, I should add that we need a proper system in place so that genuine asylum seekers can be admitted to the country legally and currently we do not.

GrannyGravy13

TerriBull I think Matthew Said has hit the nail firmly on its head 👏👏👏

He sure has 😃

TerriBull

Matthew Said wrote a very good article in yesterday's STs, I realise he's not the voice that will represent everyone here, which is fine, I don't expect him to. Personally I wouldn't give James O'Brien airtime in my house or have any interest in much of what Owen Jones has to say. However, we all have our favourite journalists and often what Matthew Said has to say resonates with me. His article was subtitled "Ordinary people will no longer stand for being told common sense is 'far right' - and rightly so"

Some of the following points he made which again resonated with me having just read a book about rural India "A strange version of the caste system has emerged in the western world. We are divided into social groups with different beliefs, attitudes and perceived purity. I use the word 'caste' because this metaphor struck me while I was watching coverage of hotels protests last week, The female interviewer - highly educated, middle class, well spoken - was talking to a working class mother holding a placard saying: "Not far right, just a concerned mum" It wasn't the words in their exchange that fascinated me so much as the body language: it reminded me of my father's nation of birth when the Brahmins find themselves near the Dalits . The interviewer looked not as if she were talking to a fellow citizen but an anthropologist talking to a member of a distant tribe" 'What do you have against immigrants?' she asked a bit repulsed 'aren't you showing racism?' he goes on to say "I could at this point bore you with a blizzard of statistics revealing the scale of this divide, I could tell you about geographical segregation between white working classes and educated elites. But none of that would get close to what I believe is going on. For this you need to understand the metaphysics of the caste system. The Dalits are 'untouchable' because they are considered impure. The Brahmins - the highest caste - have traditionally been taught to avoid them out of fear of contamination, They sometimes even flinch when passing nearby. I wonder if we see a version of this in the West today, directed not at working class people as such, but what liberals perceive as their primitive and bigoted world view. You see it when James O'Brien recoils from a working class caller on his radio show who advocates the deportation of asylum seekers. You see it when ordinary people protesting peacefully against illegal migration are ludicrously described as 'extremist' You see it when views held by the majority of British people are labelled 'far right'

Further on in the article he goes on to point out in the context of these two stratas "Think too of Brahaminic leaders like Nicola Sturgeon, Justin Trudeau and Jacinda Arden who won acclaim for prioritising hyper liberal obsessions above real material concerns of their voters - housing, the cost of living, healthcare"

He also points out that Lord Glassman (Blue Labour) recently said "an elite mindset has effectively created a hostile environment for working class people branding them bigoted for thinking completely normal things"

"And this is what makes our age so historically unusual: majority opinion among the 'lower classes' is not just emphatically right but will ultimately prevail over majority opinions of the elites, They are right to think that national borders matter, that love of nation is admirable, that illegal immigrants should be deported, that biological males shouldn't compete in women's sport, that people should be judged on merit, not colour, that western history is broadly admirable, not shaming. It is notable that most well integrated immigrants - like my father - feel this way too, just like my mother's side of the family, who are white working class, patriotic and stupefied by the strange turn of events in which they are demonised for stating the bleedin' obvious.

I know that some readers will say: Reform will betray its voters with unaffordable promises just as Trump will betray his. I broadly agree. But most working class Brits would respond : what do you think happened to us under Labour and the Tories?"

What an eloquent post. 👏👏👏👏👏

Thanks foxie48

I'm just thinking that anyone who makes the flags and even retailers who sell them will be happy.

They will be flying 😂 off the shelves before they make it to the lampposts.

Ever since Trump started to pick on us in Canada there has been a huge increase in homes waving the Maple Leaf flag.🇨🇦

Well said Foxie 48.
It is a shame that the Flag of St George has been appropriated by Tommy Robinson et al.I cannot get away from that association and their so called claim to be patriotic. I find it fine at sports fixtures or on display at celebrations, but to hear claims of Getting our country back, Getting our flag back and so on., echoes of Brexit speak and look where that got us..
Strange really , isn't it that our patron saint was born in Turkey ,brought up in Palestine and slayed the dragon in Libya.

Llamedos13 so there should be. I went to the Olympics in France last year wore my union Jack T shirt and waved my Union Jack flag but I won't wave an England flag whilst it's being used by racists and thugs even if they are in the minority.

GrannyGravy13

TerriBull I think Matthew Said has hit the nail firmly on its head 👏👏👏

So do I.

foxie48

"They are right to think that national borders matter, that love of nation is admirable, that illegal immigrants should be deported, that biological males shouldn't compete in women's sport, that people should be judged on merit, not colour, that western history is broadly admirable, not shaming.
"
Well I actually think the above too, but I wouldn't hang a flag from my house, protest outside a hotel housing asylum seekers or respond to calls to burn one down. There is a huge difference in believing the above and believing that immigration is at the root of the ills of society or that the bad action of one asylum seeker is representative of them all.

No one is going to reclaim the flag of St George as a symbol of national pride whilst organisations like the EDF and Tommy Robinson spread their vile thoughts and fund people to hang flags from their houses and lamp posts.

Good post!

GrannyGravy13

Do people automatically assume anyone wearing white stilettos are from Essex?

Anyone with a tattoo is a yob (my GP has several)

Are these the same people assuming that anyone defending the English flag must be far right and a racist?

It is the flag of England, and if law abiding citizens are being targeted as racist or far right because they defend the flag of their birth country, I think the problem lies firmly with the accusers.

How is flying flags all over the place and painting mini roundabouts "defending" a flag which isn't even being attacked?

To make any sense of it, you have to dig a bit deeper and understand what the flags symbolise. There is a group of people in the UK who claim that white Britishness is being attacked - the flag represents them. It's no different from the silly great replacement conspiracy theories.

You're being disingenuous if you don't think extreme nationalism isn't behind the flags. Just look at the people who have been organising the campaigns online and where the funding has come from.

GrannyGravy13

TerriBull I think Matthew Said has hit the nail firmly on its head 👏👏👏

And bashed it right in!

Mt61

My friends granddaughter, coming up from the South said there were flags all the way up the motorway, hanging from overhead bridges. She said it was an amazing sight.

Mt61 someone in my town has hung some flags from obscure bridges etc and if you heard the cheering of the photograph on social media with cries of ‘Get em out’ ‘ get them off the boats’ ‘they re all paedos’ ‘ burn the hotels’ I don’t think your friends grandaughter would be so thrill

I have no objections to flying the Union Jack outside people's homes etc but the mass of flags on lamp posts are going to look pretty grotty very soon. Will the people who put them up then come and take them down?
I also feel that some of these have been displayed not because of pride in the country but to intimidate certain groups of people.

growstuffI do not in anyway support Tommy Robinson, Reform or any other group with their mentality or politics.

I do object strongly with them high jacking the flag of the country of my birth.

I will not let them have sole use of the flag, and if I choose to display a flag or bunting on my property I will do so, anyone accusing me of being far right will be corrected immediately.