Radio 4 and Starmer

Hope you’ve got your flak jacket on - most people here seem to love the man ( not me ).

A deliberately provocative OP. The ‘noises off’ comment, delivered rather smirkingly, was a huge mistake.

What puzzles me is how No.10 let the rebellion go so far before turning.

Exempting existing claimants is a solid plus for all these so-called reforms and the cost should be factored in.

Where are we with ensuring that Amazon and other monster corporations that wish to do business here pay their taxes in full?

It's not U turn, it's barely a slight curve. Why are they countenancing cutting PIP at all? Why is Labour going for the poorest and most disadvantaged in society and leaving the seriously wealthy untouched? All they are offering as a 'concession' is to create a two tier system. Current PIP recipients will continue to receive the help they need to live independently, future claimants will struggle.

And why are they doing this? To satisfy Rachel Reeves' idiotic and economically illiterate 'fiscal rules'.

Governments with a sovereign currency, which they issue into the country through their spending, don't need to 'save money'. They need to spend it wisely to keep the economy moving, but spending it wisely is a completely different kettle of fish.

What happened last time we had a government bent on 'saving money'? I.e, the tories post 2010. We had a recession, people's wages stagnated and unemployment rose. We haven't recovered from this and we won't so long as Ms Reeves is chancellor because she doesn't understand how a national economy works.

Hope you’ve got your flak jacket on - most people here seem to love the man ( not me ).

You won't get any flak from me, nanna8, I am utterly horrified at the ineptitude of this government.

MaizieD totally agree 👍🏻

Good to hear Nick Robinson lambasting Labour for a change.

We need higher taxes and more services for everyone, including the resurrection of Sure Start.

Scandinavian countries have high taxes and excellent services. Do the citizens bugger off to low tax countries? No they don't. They have a sense of loyalty and community and understand that you have to pay in to get the benefits.

But dear Thatcher convinced everyone that "there is no such thing as community" and it is every man for himself and profit is god. WE have yet to shake this off.

Starmer is dithering about not wanting to offend the Thatcherite vibe that runs through our society now, rather than getting on and pursuing socialist policies to improve our infrastructure and services - we are just getting a watered down version of what came before. And as for the visuals of going straight for the benefits system and the winter fuel payment ..... does he not have PR advisors who might tell him that this is not a good look for a Labour government? I am surprised he should need telling - his backbenchers are telling him now.

What is the point in my and many other millions of people voting Labour if they do not behave like a Labour government?

I admire his stance on the international stage though - he is playing that one just right I think in the face of lunatics in charge in the US, China, Israel, Russia etc.

Because he sees himself as a global high hitter he thinks he does not need to consider the people in this country who have put him into that position. He has decimated the party membership, who elected him to the leadership, he is dismissive of his MPs, even though without them he would not be Prime Minister and he seems to believe that it was him that won his large majority, when in fact it was the collapse of the Conservative party.
A man with that much unjustified self esteem is not going to find it easy to listen to advice from those he considers unimportant. Hopefully he just might start listening now.

His sycophants are deliberately confusing the issue by talking about "signing on for PIP", instead of making an application. and by pretending that PIP is somehow related to getting a job. Martin Lewis has called them out on this sort of deliberate obfuscation.

MaisieD is perfectly correct about Reeves having no understanding of economics. She wants to take money away from the people who actually spend it in the economy in order to preserve the wealth of people who syphon it off shore, which is of no use to anybody.

She has such a low opinion of her fellow millionaires that she thinks they will all run away in terror if they have to chip in a bit extra.

Any one of us or our children or grandchildren could be struck down by illness or accident at any time. Starmer, Reeves, Kendal, and others want to reduce any remaining support that can help people live with dignity and hope.
I despise them.

Excellent post MaizieD - totally agree.

Ilovecheese

Because he sees himself as a global high hitter he thinks he does not need to consider the people in this country who have put him into that position. He has decimated the party membership, who elected him to the leadership, he is dismissive of his MPs, even though without them he would not be Prime Minister and he seems to believe that it was him that won his large majority, when in fact it was the collapse of the Conservative party.
A man with that much unjustified self esteem is not going to find it easy to listen to advice from those he considers unimportant. Hopefully he just might start listening now.

His sycophants are deliberately confusing the issue by talking about "signing on for PIP", instead of making an application. and by pretending that PIP is somehow related to getting a job. Martin Lewis has called them out on this sort of deliberate obfuscation.

I don’t think he wanted to see himself as a global high hitter. But international events have necessitated it; and, imo it’s good that he seems to have the knack of keeping everyone on side. Would you rather he ignored what is going on in the rest of the world? Because, like it or not, it’s going to affect all of us in one way or another.

MaizieD

It's not U turn, it's barely a slight curve. Why are they countenancing cutting PIP at all? Why is Labour going for the poorest and most disadvantaged in society and leaving the seriously wealthy untouched? All they are offering as a 'concession' is to create a two tier system. Current PIP recipients will continue to receive the help they need to live independently, future claimants will struggle.

And why are they doing this? To satisfy Rachel Reeves' idiotic and economically illiterate 'fiscal rules'.

Governments with a sovereign currency, which they issue into the country through their spending, don't need to 'save money'. They need to spend it wisely to keep the economy moving, but spending it wisely is a completely different kettle of fish.

What happened last time we had a government bent on 'saving money'? I.e, the tories post 2010. We had a recession, people's wages stagnated and unemployment rose. We haven't recovered from this and we won't so long as Ms Reeves is chancellor because she doesn't understand how a national economy works.

Hope you’ve got your flak jacket on - most people here seem to love the man ( not me ).

You won't get any flak from me, nanna8, I am utterly horrified at the ineptitude of this government.

Agree totally MaizieD it’s hard to get my head around some of the political decisions Labour have made, I wouldn’t even have expected it of the Tories!

Makes the term ‘two tier Keir’ even more apt now, when those with disabilities will suffer more from now on than those on PIP already.

If he can't cope with thinking about both home and abroad he should have delayed this bill.

What is the point in my(?) and many other millions of people voting Labour if they do not behave like a Labour government?
This is what happens when people vote tactically and do not consider who and what they are voting for. Many people who voted Labour are not Labour supporters; they simply wanted Conservatives out. Voting Labour was the simplest option: 'they can't be any worse than the Tories.'
Well, that illusion didn't last long, hence the rush to Reform.
Being in Government is not nearly so simple as Labour believed.

nanna8

Hope you’ve got your flak jacket on - most people here seem to love the man ( not me ).

Me neither.

Why do you think Labour thought it would be easy? Weren’t they criticised for saying that it wouldn’t be and not being super happy and optimistic?

But it is the people who voted Labour because they wanted Labour values who are being ignored and sidelined. People who would normally have voted Conservative are surely getting a Government of Conservative values and policies.

The Conservatives were, and still are, unelectable. What were people supposed to do? And all parties are looking over their shoulder at Reform because the electorate seem to be being wowed by them even though most of what they spout makes no sense.

I wasn’t even going to bother comment, but really, some of the venom directed at Starmer is quite staggering, particularly following a govt that deemed Johnson and Truss as PMs.

He will have been in power a full 12 months very soon. Most new job roles are a full 12 months to totally bed-in, according to some HR professionals. I don’t think negotiating and changing one’s plans is necessarily a bad thing. Isn’t that what democracy and being far is all about?

Btw, PIP has a high fraud element, in comparison to Universal Credit and an appalling assessment process. It needs overhauling.

Still, I voted Labour and would do so again. I think they’ve had an appalling start and I’m not a fan of Reeves, but I feel Starmer is a fair and scared man and believes in Labour, however he is a centralist so won’t appeal to many Labour supporters. I also happen to quite like Rayner, I like her passion and straight talking!

Fair not far!

What is ironic is that even the initial welfare cuts proposed by Labour were considerably less harsh than those proposed by the Tories. People don’t always join the dots.

Just a reminder:
In 2015 George Osborne introduced a benefits cap, which was intended to limit the amount any household could receive in benefits to £26,000, was cut to £23,000 in London and £20,000 elsewhere.
Working-age benefits were frozen for four years.
Employment and Support Allowance for people with disabilities was cut by £30 a week.
Those under the age of were to be stopped from claiming housing benefit.
Hey Ho.

Goodness knows what I meant by Starmer being “fair and scared” Think I meant stable! Seriously feel I’m losing what few marbles I have left - sorry for a nonsense post!

Please, please give us an edit feature)

I can tell you, as I was working in the DWP, this was a very damaging policy, the benefit cap, coupled with the rules around housing, I was working with Essex family workers and it was awful to see people suddenly having drop in their finances. This is when reliance on food banks and charities started. Of course if any household member was in receipt of DLA or PIP or worked more than 16 hours a week the cap did not apply, it did however impact many many families and single people.