U turn on winter fuel payments- is it a good move?

There never was any black hole .the conservatives left this country in a good state financially for this idiot government to ruin .
Already ,unemployment is rising thanks to their small business changes .by 2029 we will really see a massive black hole where Rachel from accounts has handed all our taxes to unions and the public sector .

MaizieD

^Making derogatory remarks about older generations does you no favours, and does tend to prove the point that younger people are making.^

My 'derogatory remarks' apply to those Gnetters who refuse to accept that the post war generation (AKA the Baby Boomers) have had far better life chances than any generation before or since. If that is the face such people present to younger generations I don't blame the young for being antagonistic.

I still say it's all about economics and that Thatcher, on the whole, left a disastrous legacy for the UK.

Post-war generations. Post-war is from 1945 to present day.

Do you mean those fortunate to have been born in 1960 - 1980?

I still say it's all about economics and that Thatcher, on the whole, left a disastrous legacy for the UK.
Although it was Tony Blair's government which introduced tuition fees and removed the maintenance grant.
🤔

LizzieDrip

^What do you think is the reason for the reinstatement ( more or less) of the WFA?
Interested to know, but please don’t say the government is being ever so ‘umble and wanting to be kind to pensioners^

Oreo how on earth can you ask someone a question and, in the same breath, tell them how they’re not allowed to answer it🤷‍♀️

Votes.

Allira

^I still say it's all about economics and that Thatcher, on the whole, left a disastrous legacy for the UK.^
Although it was Tony Blair's government which introduced tuition fees and removed the maintenance grant.
🤔

Blair didn't remove the maintenance grant. The tuition fees he introduced were nothing like they are now.

growstuff

Allira

I still say it's all about economics and that Thatcher, on the whole, left a disastrous legacy for the UK.
Although it was Tony Blair's government which introduced tuition fees and removed the maintenance grant.
🤔

Blair didn't remove the maintenance grant. The tuition fees he introduced were nothing like they are now.

No, I know.

Once introduced, though, it was a stepping stone to increases.

I thought he did remove the maintenance grant, perhaps I'm misremembering. I thought it was 2001

growstuff

Primrose53

To be honest they are running scared! There was such anger and resentment when they stopped the WFA that they could do nothing else but reinstate it. They completely misread the situation like they do with pretty much everything else.

People are fed up with seeing them giving billions to other causes and ignoring British people who have worked, paid taxes etc all their lives.

We have 32,000 illegal immigrants put up in hotels at our expense and 70,000 in other forms of accommodation. It is costing us BILLIONS and if it wasn’t true would be laughable!

It is high time they put their own countryfolk first.

The government doesn't ignore British people. If you look about you, it is younger British people who are moaning about older people receiving a benefit. Illegal immigrants have nothing to do with it.

Illegal immigrants have very much to do with this! If we weren’t stupid enough to be forking out billions on people who should not even be here, we could comfortably look after our own people first. Other countries have realised this ….. eg The Scandinavian countries and are doing something about it.

Individual circumstances vary and this has to be taken into account. Due to illness, I had to cease working, so now only have the £200 p.w. state pension. When broken down (after tax and NI & pension contribution), partner's salary is only just above minimum wage. We downsized in order to economise. The new house is heated using oil. We calculated that the entire of the WFA could put enough fuel in the tank to keep us going over the winter. Not having it was a blow. No oil. No heat. GNs can conclude.

Dream on Primrose53!! (I'll leave you your delusions.)

Allira

growstuff

Allira

I still say it's all about economics and that Thatcher, on the whole, left a disastrous legacy for the UK.
Although it was Tony Blair's government which introduced tuition fees and removed the maintenance grant.
🤔

Blair didn't remove the maintenance grant. The tuition fees he introduced were nothing like they are now.

No, I know.

Once introduced, though, it was a stepping stone to increases.

I thought he did remove the maintenance grant, perhaps I'm misremembering. I thought it was 2001

I'm not sure when the maintenance grant was removed, but my daughter started university in 2012 and received a means-tested, non-repayable maintenance grant, so it must have been after that.

Just Googled it. Non-repayable maintenance grants were removed from August 2016.

Allira

MaizieD

Making derogatory remarks about older generations does you no favours, and does tend to prove the point that younger people are making.

My 'derogatory remarks' apply to those Gnetters who refuse to accept that the post war generation (AKA the Baby Boomers) have had far better life chances than any generation before or since. If that is the face such people present to younger generations I don't blame the young for being antagonistic.

I still say it's all about economics and that Thatcher, on the whole, left a disastrous legacy for the UK.

Post-war generations. Post-war is from 1945 to present day.

Do you mean those fortunate to have been born in 1960 - 1980?

No. I mean those who were born 1945 - 1964, the cohort known as the Baby Boomers.

I have already said that the 1997 - 2010 Labour government just picked up Thatcher's economic baton, though they did manage to improve some areas, such as far higher investment in the NHS and in education. Then Osborne undid any good work they'd done. So whataboutery about student fees really doesn't mean a great deal.

keepingquiet It's for those with income under £35K. I feel it is like the child allowance how its based on individual income, eg, someone earning £34k and a parter earning £33k will both be eligible with a total income of £67k whilst someone on their own with income of £35,500 will not get any allowance. I've not seen anything clarifying if its income before or after tax. Does it take more to heat a house with one or two occupants?

Martin Lewis says it is complex www.facebook.com/reel/1215148450075328.

I think it is brave to make the change, but I am not at all sure that I agree totally. Those who really need it are probably already on benefit of some sort. The massive increase on uptake of pension credits has shown this.

However, if you are fit and healthy, then perhaps over 85 you are more sedentary and possibly need heat.

Fuel is FAR cheaper than it was last year - I have not done the math, but perhaps if you could pay with the subsidy last year, then you could pay without it this year

Certainly the limits both on pension credit, zero tax need to be looked at given that most on basic pension are now paying tax - so this is a better battle than fuel.

The LP are just running scared after the Reform party has done so well lately and this about turn shows them up for having made the mistake in the first place.
I think it's the right thing to do and will be a great help to many. I do wonder how the money will be recouped from those with an income over £35k via HMRC and how much it will cost to do this. It would have been so much better if they had just left it in place in the first place.

The thing in FranP is that there hasn't been been a massive uptake in pension credit. Only 6% of those 760,000 households said to be eligible have made a successful claim since last July- just 45,800 from 760,000 households. That leaves over 700,000 households not claiming for whatever reason and as much as £1.5 billion Pension Credit going unclaimed.

If the limit to pay WFP now is set too low, say at £20,000 as someone else suggested, it means that millions of pensioners with relatively low incomes will have to self assess for tax so that the payment can be clawed back. Many won't find that an easy process.

It could be argued that a large proportion of people in the £35,000+ income bracket already do self-assess so they are in the system and know what to do each year.

The administrative load and costs are a major factor in this.

Means testing is hugely expensive. It's hard to find numbers but 15 years ago it was costing £450 a case to means test for Pension Credit.

Far easier to pay WFP to every household and claw back through tax. Many may chose to opt out.

I think this is a decent compromise.

I’ve not seen anything clarifying if it’s income before or after tax

I assume it’s income before tax.

When HMRC send me my tax information at the start of the new tax year, it shows my state pension plus my works pension as income. It then goes on to say what tax they foresee me paying.

Thankfully, I receive nothing like the £35k.

FranP Setting the threshold at £35,000 very firmly destroys the argument about poor pensioners being denied help.

Chocolatelovinggran

Oreo, I don't know what caused this decision, and I don't think that you do, either.
Giving your views - " I believe this.." is different from " people who disagree with my mindset are fools".

So, where do I say that those who disagree with my mindset are ‘fools’ ? Actually I didn’t.
So you can’t say why the decision was taken then? You could have a pretty good guess am sure.
I see the amount of bad publicity and anger over the decision to take it away over the last year, not just from pensioners and bodies like Age UK but from Unions and many back benchers and just about any Joe Public added to the swift rise of Reform and how they did in the local elections and the fear of them doing even better must have swung it for this new decision to have taken place.
Reeves and Starmer have spent all year doubling down on the policy decision and how it was the right thing, and now this capitulation.It’s good of course but they will be associated with this debacle for the rest of their term.

Labour was facing dissent from some of its own backbenchers.

For those who do get £35,000 or over who don’t do any self assessment as regards tax, I have read that will continue and they don’t need to do anything.

Primrose53

growstuff

Primrose53

To be honest they are running scared! There was such anger and resentment when they stopped the WFA that they could do nothing else but reinstate it. They completely misread the situation like they do with pretty much everything else.

People are fed up with seeing them giving billions to other causes and ignoring British people who have worked, paid taxes etc all their lives.

We have 32,000 illegal immigrants put up in hotels at our expense and 70,000 in other forms of accommodation. It is costing us BILLIONS and if it wasn’t true would be laughable!

It is high time they put their own countryfolk first.

The government doesn't ignore British people. If you look about you, it is younger British people who are moaning about older people receiving a benefit. Illegal immigrants have nothing to do with it.

Illegal immigrants have very much to do with this! If we weren’t stupid enough to be forking out billions on people who should not even be here, we could comfortably look after our own people first. Other countries have realised this ….. eg The Scandinavian countries and are doing something about it.

Well said Primrose53.

There always was dissent from Labour MPs but many of them were only newly-elected when Sunak forced the vote last September.

Some were seen crying in the lobbies whipped into voting for something they thought was wrong. The only one who defied the whip was Jon Trickett.

A reminder of what happened:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/sep/17/labour-mps-missed-winter-fuel-vote-feudal-warning-by-whips

Almost a year on, those new MPs will have found confidence and allies enough to make a stand against what was always wrong.

Oreo

For those who do get £35,000 or over who don’t do any self assessment as regards tax, I have read that will continue and they don’t need to do anything.

Pension companies inform HMRC directly of the pensions they pay out. It wouldn't be rocket science for HMRC to work out who is receiving more than £35,000.

Of course it wouldn’t.I was just pointing out that if you don’t do self assessment now you won’t need to in the future.
It will be clawed back.