43,000 prisoners to be released early

It's the usual tosh isn't it? I'd be thrilled if it keeps 43,000 out of jail, at well over £50k pa + the cost of the new prisons we'd need I would have thought people would be delighted.

Well, exactly! See above for correction of what the figure 43.000 represents. It's about whether future sentences for certain categories of offences should be prison or alternative community service.

I read this as 43,000 pensioners to be released early.😮 Back to the opticians!

Not sure if this is me being dopey, but the total prison population is under 100,000. How can 43,000 prisoners be released early?

You cant "just" do it, nanna, for the reasons I outlined. The major one being a country has to agree to a prisoner arrival! How would you get past that?

If they are not permanent residents just deport them. Why should the taxpayer pay for them? Nuts.

The Home Office has a duty to deport foreign prisoners but the receiving country has to agree

We do have agreements with some countries, some have to be negotiated individually, some exceptions to countries where prisoners life in danger.

The process is quite complicated takes some time and there are some appeals.

WWM is right. There have been confusing press headlines.

The Daily Telegraph stated "Labour will hand 40,000 criminals a get out of jail free card" (thats the confusing bit)

but it then goes on to say

"Burglars, shoplifters and knife offenders will face community sentences under plans to scrap most prison terms of less than 12 months"

GB news is more confusing:

Headlines "killers and rapists to be set free early". but then also adds
"Up to 43000 criminals a year are set to miss jail sentences under Labour's soft-justice masterplan" (but lillers and rapists will face prison)

I think that the OP is incorrect.

Where the number 43000 comes from is the potential criminals who under the new guidelines will not be SENT TO PRISON not released.

So low risk offenders etc will be more likely to receive community orders and such like rather than be imprisoned, which imo is a good thing.

Retired Prison Govenor, Vanessa Frake was on TV yesterday discussing these early releases. She said in her opinion we DO have a two tier system and she should know!

She quoted the case of a rapist who was sentenced to 21 months suspended for 2 years and compared that to Lucy Connolly who got 31 months for “a tweet”.

foxie48

No I didn't but I've seen a few wobbly patios done by professionals! My point remains though, it's still better to give CS orders than short term prison sentence if we want to reduce reoffending. Tbh it doesn't surprise me that offenders are unreliable, disorganised and perform badly, that's why CS can be more helpful than locking them up for a few months, it's often the start they need to get them back on track. What would be your solution, Primrose?

I would deport all the foreign prisoners immediately to free up space. There are plenty of them too.

There was a good piece on The Week in Westminster yesterday.
It starts at 13.38 minutes into the piece.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002dd63

I don't have direct experience of CS but I think it's probably the poor examples that get noticed whilst the effective ones don't. In the past I've worked with young offenders and they have usually lacked the basic skills and habits needed to be a reliable employee. It's all part of what leads them into crime in the first place.

Well surely there is some sort of compromise between prison ( which for non violent offences I am not in favour of) or what sounds like badly organised CS. Obviously this is also all anecdotal so doesn't give an accurate reflection of CS as a whole.

No I didn't but I've seen a few wobbly patios done by professionals! My point remains though, it's still better to give CS orders than short term prison sentence if we want to reduce reoffending. Tbh it doesn't surprise me that offenders are unreliable, disorganised and perform badly, that's why CS can be more helpful than locking them up for a few months, it's often the start they need to get them back on track. What would be your solution, Primrose?

foxie48

I think a better measure of how successful CS is compared with a short prison sentence is to look at reoffending rates. The rate for those who do CS is less than half of that for those who are jailed, they often keep their jobs, don't lose their relationships and dont cost the taxpayer so much. A wobbly patio seems to be a fair exchange IMO.

You didn’t see it!! 🤣

I think a better measure of how successful CS is compared with a short prison sentence is to look at reoffending rates. The rate for those who do CS is less than half of that for those who are jailed, they often keep their jobs, don't lose their relationships and dont cost the taxpayer so much. A wobbly patio seems to be a fair exchange IMO.

Always a good idea if organised properly. It's probably easier in urban areas. The problem is the shortage of probation officers and overseeing projects and difficult individuals.
It's all about resourcing however. If prisons were able to offer rehabilitative options we might not get so much re-offending (as in countries that do offer this and have low reoffending rates)

How do we pay? More taxes? Money taken from Care or NHS?

Community Service stopped when Covid arrived and had never been resumed in our area. There are so many things they could do to help in the community particularly when councils are having their funding reduced, year on year. A neighbour told me there is a shortage of responsible adults to supervise them. Not much of a punishment then.

Oreo

Community service is a good idea badly implemented.It needs to be really well run with capable people running it.

I used to think it was a good idea but having seen it in action many times, it seems pretty pointless.

The hours wasted driving around rural areas picking up these criminals should not count towards their working hours.
I think a better idea which would also cost much less would be to make the criminal responsible for tidying up within a certain radius of their home. Litter picking, sweeping leaves, cleaning graffiti etc.

Community service is a good idea badly implemented.It needs to be really well run with capable people running it.

And those are the ones who even bother to turn up!