Assisted dying bill passed.

I am relieved that this legislation is being passed, have seen various family members and close friends die in terrible pain, and the NHS isn’t that great at end of life care. One of my friend’s DH had a very bad death due to mix up with palliative care given at home, he died screaming.
Am afraid I just don’t trust end of life care to be that good for me either and would not wish my own bad death upon my grown family or DH.
We allow our pets a dignified death, is time to give people the same choice.

Aveline

My suspicion is that people have been quietly helped on their way for years. Morphine is known to suppress breathing. Large doses can dull the pain then...

Suspicion isn’t fact when you have no proof.

Are you a medic Avaline?

Depending on each patients condition.
Legal large doses of morphine is not sufficient pain relief in many cases.
Morphine suppresses breathing but also assists with breathing, again, depending on each individual case.

Aveline

My suspicion is that people have been quietly helped on their way for years. Morphine is known to suppress breathing. Large doses can dull the pain then...

Since Shipman, doctors have been very restrained re increasing doses, for fear of being reported, accused and prosecuted.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Ah, thank you for the explanation Fleurpepper. Much appreciated.

Happy to answer any specific questions by PM.

My suspicion is that people have been quietly helped on their way for years. Morphine is known to suppress breathing. Large doses can dull the pain then...

Ah, thank you for the explanation Fleurpepper. Much appreciated.

Much easier than improving palliative care. I’m sure KS is congratulating himself on another money saving venture.

Dignitas is only used by foreigners, who can't avail themselves of choice in their own country.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Could you explain what ‘Exit’ is please Fleurpepper? Is is only available in certain countries - to be a member of?

Apologies- Exit is the Swiss association for those, resident in Switzerland (not only Swiss) - who want to have the choice if and when. For approx £40 a year, you are a member, with courses, books, AGM, and phone advice/assistance. And if and when the time comes, you can ask for assistance. This will follow with a medical report, an interview by trained volunteer to ensure you full understand how it works and no coercion. If they are satisfied you fit all the criteria, a date will be set, and a place. Usually the person's own home, but could be in Care Home or Hospital. And on the chosen day, a second interview will take place to make sure the person is full aware and, again, no hesitation or coercion. The the potion is provided for the person to take, or the drip put up to be activated by the person. All is filmed- the evidence then given to the Police and Judge.

All for free, only the £40 subs for a year.

There are a couple of other associations, like LifeCircle or Pegasos, but Exit is the main one.

You have to be Swiss resident, however.

As I mentioned above my Father died 40 years ago. I can still remember exactly how he looked and the experience of being in hospital with him during the week before he finally died.

He crosses my mind virtually every day, just briefly. It's more difficult to remember him, and my Mother as they were before ill health got them.

Glad it got past. When my husband was dieing if he had asked I would have overdosed him. Our McMillan nurse had already total us the next higher dose of morphine would kill him . So I always knew how much to give if he wanted it . Thankfully he died not long after but he died in agnoy unable to breath even on full oxygen.

My dad hated what he became and I would have helped he died if he asked. Same with my mom before the dementia killed her and her body lived on.

I have already made my decision if I ever get dementia or Alzheimer's. Or going to die in agony I do not want my daughter to go through what I did . Or have the memories I have. We all have free will and our bodies belong to us.

TopsyIrene06

Kalu I agree wholeheartedly with you, beautifully explained. I had a similar experience with my DH.
There will be many more discussions, parliamentary committees and votes etc. before it becomes legal.
Deepest condolences to you, they are never forgotten. Life is never the same.

Indeed TopsyIrene06 those horrific images of what my darling husband suffered are in my head daily.

As a former nurse, my work ethos was to preserve life however, watching how much my husband, not a patient this time, suffered, with me doing everything within my power to effectively care for my patients, it really hit home when I felt so helpless to do so much more for my patients and more so for my DH. The proof I needed that if he was given the option to end his life, I would be there for him until a peaceful end rather than witnessing his continual misery until the end.

I for one am glad it has not been thrown out at this stage. It leaves room and time now for further review, research and debate, probably with some changes, before possibly becoming law. It is far from a done deal.

eazybee

Concerned about this decision, one made by a new parliament full of raw, inexperienced MPs.
Absolutely the wrong time to debate something so important.

Eazybee that very thought crossed my mind too.

Allsorts I agree with you.

Concerned about this decision, one made by a new parliament full of raw, inexperienced MPs.
Absolutely the wrong time to debate something so important.

As I said on the other thread about this, I used to be a supporter of assisted death, but as I’ve grown older (and maybe wiser?) I just feel uncomfortable with this. People can be coerced. As Dianne Abbot said in Parliament this morning, you cannot see coercion. Family or medics could coerce, and leave the patient feeling it would be better for everyone if they were dead. My daughter suffered coercive control in her marriage and I didn’t see the extent of it. How would anyone see the extent of coercion if used in the situation of assisted death?
I’m also concerned that the conditions will be widened over time, as has happened in other countries. Also will judges, doctors, and nurses be willing to take part in this? I don’t know if I could if I was a medic, or a judge.

Common sense at last!

It will be a long time before it is law.

Could you explain what ‘Exit’ is please Fleurpepper? Is is only available in certain countries - to be a member of?

Been out all day taking my big brother for lunch for his 87th birthday. Like myaself and DH, we are all members of Exit, andif and when, will have the choice, and in our own home- without having to wait for the '6th month left' stage.

I am so pleased the Bill has passed to the next stage, so that our family and friends will have that choice, if and when.

Mollygrow, your last sentence 'Upgrading Palliative care would be much more expensive than just requiring a vote to kill people off' is so so unfair and, tbh, appalling. This bill is not and never will be, about 'killing people off'. I am so sorry to had to witness this with your mother- I witnessed the opposite with mine. She was a member of Exit, and because she knew she would have the choice if her loss of dignity and independence, combined with blindness, loss of her legs and sight, just got too much. Reassured by having that ultimate choice, she chose to live for a good 10 years- before turning to the wall and refusing food and drink.

I’m relieved the proposed bill has been allowed to go ahead so far. I expected this result. It’s very restricted, though - I’d like something a bit more general.

That was only one form of cancer- not all cancers. That a patient's life should get to that stage is intolerable but has nothing to do with this bill.

Many doctors also spoke about good end of life care preventing these horrible occurences.

I'm glad MPs have voted for this

Severely depressed people find ways to take their own lives anyway

According to Senior Political Correspondent it was a 60/40 split - so not that close. Personally I am pleased and will get further discussion now. Listening to a few MPs who are doctors describe cancer eating through patients neck until they bleed out - well who would choose that end to life. DH stage 4 cancer isnt quite sure how he feels.