Sick of Starmer relentlessly using the words"difficult " & "painful"

eazybee if you have a look at the link Casdon posted at 19.08 yesterday, it quickly becomes clear that vast amounts of money are flowing through to political parties. I am wondering where all this money ends up? Is it pocketed by the individual mp or used to run salaries for staff? For example, a green lobby gave Rachel Reeves £99,000 - how was this money spent?

It’s wrong that Starmer has accepted donations and gifts after criticising Tories for doing the same.... it is custom and practice. It’s not something I agree with in principle, but it is what it is.

I do not understand your beliefs about right and wrong. You acknowledge it is wrong that Starmer accepted donations but then say 'That’s not to say he is wrong for accepting them, because it is the norm in Westminster; it is custom and practice.'
So: it ^ is^wrong for him to accept donations but it is not wrong because everybody else does it.
Really?
An extraordinary moral code.

Dickens but the Conservatives also kicked social care into the long grass. At what point does the 10 year plan start? Is it in year 8? Starmer needs to realise that he has a 5 year window. Any credible leader would plan for that. What happens to the bed blocking in the NHS then over the next 10 years? There needs to be a sense of urgency which just isn’t happening under any government. Crazy times.

Wyllow3

Cuts all ways:

news.sky.com/story/dishonesty-epidemic-infecting-tories-conference-sparks-fresh-calls-for-rules-to-stop-mps-lying-12976524

I think its OK to change your policy as needs demand: history is full of changed policies that at the first time of speaking seemed completely realistic.

I say, go by the policy, and the times we live in

I'm clear that whilst GFA levels have been targeted badly, and that needs altering as a matter of priority, it is not essential for all to receive it.

With hindsight most politicians may wish they had or had not promised such and such, examples abound, like Johnson promising the 2019 electorate most clearly that he would sort out Care in the Community.

I've just googled a page of "promises politicians dropped" and unsurprisingly - there are lists from both the major parties.

With hindsight most politicians may wish they had or had not promised such and such, examples abound, like Johnson promising the 2019 electorate most clearly that he would sort out Care in the Community.

Oh yes. Care in the Community.

One of the major factors, among others, why those admitted to A&E who need a bed find themselves waiting for hours and hours on trollies in corridors, or languishing on plastic chairs in overfilled waiting areas - or cupboards.

I once watched an elderly lady desperately in need of convalescence prior to going home after major surgery to live alone crying in despair because there was nothing on offer - nowhere to send her, all available beds in suitable homes were occupied. As the nurses told her - they were in very short supply.

She was pitchforked out in the end with the promise of carers coming in 4 times a day to her home. The arrangement took ages because - there were not enough carers in the locality. She was frail and nervous and really should not have been sent home alone - but the ward needed the bed. There was nothing they could do but encourage her, but it was obvious to anyone that she needed a period of rehabilitation.

Starmer has a 10 year plan to improve access to out-of-hospital care.

I hope he's more successful than get-Brexit-done Boris.

Cuts all ways:

news.sky.com/story/dishonesty-epidemic-infecting-tories-conference-sparks-fresh-calls-for-rules-to-stop-mps-lying-12976524

I think its OK to change your policy as needs demand: history is full of changed policies that at the first time of speaking seemed completely realistic.

I say, go by the policy, and the times we live in

I'm clear that whilst GFA levels have been targeted badly, and that needs altering as a matter of priority, it is not essential for all to receive it.

With hindsight most politicians may wish they had or had not promised such and such, examples abound, like Johnson promising the 2019 electorate most clearly that he would sort out Care in the Community.

I've just googled a page of "promises politicians dropped" and unsurprisingly - there are lists from both the major parties.

No excuses for anything you condemned others for doing or accepting.

No excuse for bennies for friends.

GrannyGravy13

Covid procurement was a nightmare politically and for those of us who it was our livelihood.

Our Government got things wrong, they should be held to account.

Profiteering was rife, prices were going up by the minute. China had the majority of PPE stocks and it wasn’t available. They were off loading substandard stock to anyone who paid.

But if the government hadn’t ignored Operation Cygnus we wouldn’t have been as ill prepared as we were. And that’s thanks to Jeremy Hunt who then ended up as Chancellor.

Covid procurement was a nightmare politically and for those of us who it was our livelihood.

Our Government got things wrong, they should be held to account.

Profiteering was rife, prices were going up by the minute. China had the majority of PPE stocks and it wasn’t available. They were off loading substandard stock to anyone who paid.

Its not all about gifts: its also about networks:

Tory Covid contracts worth £15bn had corruption ‘red flags’, study finds
Findings by Transparency International UK point to ‘more than coincidence or incompetence’, says chief executive".

www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/sep/09/tory-covid-contracts-worth-15bn-had-corruption-red-flags-study-finds

eazybee

The second part of your argument is more relevant. 'that's not to say he is wrong in accepting them.' Yes, he is wrong in accepting them.
Shoplifting is becoming more frequent but that does not mean it is acceptable because so many people do it.

Why are you reading sentences in isolation and quoting them without the context? I said I didn’t agree with the principle, but somehow, again, in your translation, that got lost.

Keir Starmer’s account stands at £900,000 approximately in 2019 presumably to 2024? Not bad …

The second part of your argument is more relevant. 'that's not to say he is wrong in accepting them.' Yes, he is wrong in accepting them.
Shoplifting is becoming more frequent but that does not mean it is acceptable because so many people do it.

Rishi Sunak doesn’t seem to have any donations in 2024 ?

ronib

Surprisingly I think a fair chunk of BJ’s £6.4 million comes from earnings - speaking engagements, book royalties and other activities? Casdon

No, you can see the visual colour bubbles ronib, there are many gifts and donations.

Surprisingly I think a fair chunk of BJ’s £6.4 million comes from earnings - speaking engagements, book royalties and other activities? Casdon

MayBee70

Oh come on. It isn’t in the same league as the cronyism that we’ve had for the past 14 years!

So by that argument, doing something that others have been, quite rightly criticised for is acceptable as long as it’s done on a smaller scale.

Really?
I’m sorry. I don’t agree. If it’s wrong, it’s wrong.

eazybee

^That’s not to say he is wrong for accepting them, because it is the norm in Westminster, it is custom and practice. It’s not something I agree with in principle, but it is what it is.^

Yes he is wrong for accepting them because he has criticized others for doing so. I don't accept bribes, my friends and family don't accept bribes, most of Parliament don't accept bribes; it may happen, it is not the norm and it is not right, and we will continue to express our distaste as long as we feel it is necessary.

There are as many different views about this as there are electors eazybee, but misreading my post and quoting half of it back, missing out ‘ It’s wrong that Starmer has accepted donations and gifts after criticising Tories for doing the same’ doesn’t help your case here?

ronib

Where is the breakdown of £6.4 million for B. Johnson?
Well as I keep saying the Sunak family paid in £20 million to stay here - what a contrast!

If you click the link on the attachment and type in the name you can see it ronib.
The alternative truth for the Sunak’s is that he worked here and couldn’t live elsewhere, so they lived in this country, why weren’t they paying their tax here in the first place, as I recall. It was hyped up by the media of course.

That’s not to say he is wrong for accepting them, because it is the norm in Westminster, it is custom and practice. It’s not something I agree with in principle, but it is what it is.

Yes he is wrong for accepting them because he has criticized others for doing so. I don't accept bribes, my friends and family don't accept bribes, most of Parliament don't accept bribes; it may happen, it is not the norm and it is not right, and we will continue to express our distaste as long as we feel it is necessary.

We could play a game. If you can't....... you shouldn't be running the country.

Where is the breakdown of £6.4 million for B. Johnson?
Well as I keep saying the Sunak family paid in £20 million to stay here - what a contrast!

MayBee70

Oh come on. It isn’t in the same league as the cronyism that we’ve had for the past 14 years!

So that’s ok then?

It’s just plain wrong, whoever is on the receiving end.

If you cannot budget to buy your wife a dress on a salary of over £150,000, you shouldn’t be running the country.

That goes for any MP if any colour

Oh come on. It isn’t in the same league as the cronyism that we’ve had for the past 14 years!

I know GrannyGravy it’s not okay. I hope what this debacle does is to highlight the principle, so that there is much greater clarity in future. Maybe all donations should be to the party, and a scale of allowances be based on that, or some other transparent process should be developed.